1955 Target question

[BUFF]

I may be misunderstood here, but I lump N frame cylinders into 2 general lengths, the 'long' cylinder used in the .44 and 41 Magnums and the Model 25-5 and later guns, and then the 'short' cylinder used in the .38-44, .357 Magnum and .45 ACP guns.

Even then, the exact lengths will vary. In a M-29-2 'long' counterbored or recessed cylinder, the cylinder is longer (in the rear end) than in a M-29-3 'long' cylinder (or later gun) that isn't recessed. A M-27-2 'short' cylinder is longer because it is recessed than a M-27-3 'short cylinder that isn't, and again the extra length is in the rear.

The pre-1977 .45 Colt cylinders (special order and M-25-3) are 'short' as are the .45 ACP cylinders, but the ACP cylinders are even shorter (in the rear) because the headspace is greater than it is for the Colt cartridge.

So that's how I see it, basically 2 cylinder lengths, but they all differ at the rear end depending on whether they are recessed/counterbored, or for which cartridge they are chambered.

That's the long and short of it.

Let's see a show of hands of all those who understand this thoroughly.

 

[JSR III]

I just can't understand why anyone would want to put a Colt cylinder on a Smith & Wesson. That's like putting a Ford engine in a Chevy.

 

[Muley Gil]

I just can't understand why anyone would want to put a Colt cylinder on a Smith & Wesson. That's like putting a Ford engine in a Chevy.

Waaal, we'uns shore like to shoot those .45 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP) cartridges in those 1950, 1955, M25, M26 and M625 revolvers that clutter up this revolver section of the Forum.

 

[Muley Gil]

The same short cylinder problem exists with M27 ad M28 cylinders and long heavy bullets. The solution is to use a bullet with two crimp groves, or to crimp over the front of the first band just as reloaders have done for the 75 or more years.

My first double action .45 Colt revolver was a 2nd model .455 S&W that had been rechambered. My bullet mould was a .452 Keith style SWC that threw a 262 grain long bullet. I crimped over the front band and those cartridges came right to the end of the cylinder.

 

[Hondo44]

Buff,

You got it right.

Short and long works fine.
Overall cyl length is confusing because the recess or non-recess affects the length, but the chamber lengths above the rim can be the same.

For bullet length considerations and the forcing cone length of the barrel I just compare the chamber length above the rim for .38/.357, 41, 44 and 45 Colt.


The cyl window and rim headspace is the same whether or not the chamber is recessed or not on the back end.

 

[ddixie884]

Just in case anyone cares, the 452423 will fit the shorter S&W cylinders when crimped in the crimp groove. The Lyman mold I have weighs 252 from wheel weight metal.

 

[BUFF]

If you meant Lyman 454424, mine won't. Maybe the mould has changed over the years. My bullets weigh about 260 grains with wheel weight metal, and are just a smidge too long. 1.627", just checked a W-W case so loaded.

I find that just too long to fit in my M-25-3 or my Bowen .38-44 conversion.

I'm still using some R-P bulk-packed 250 grain conical lead bullets, as well as the cast ones for my Colt SAA's and M-25-5 and others with longer cylinders. I have some swaged Speer 250 SWC's, too. I only aim to try to duplicate factory velocities, and these bullets work great for that, especially for fixed sight guns.

Just thinking about the future, I trimmed some W-W .45 Colt cases down until I could use them with the 454424 crimped normally and still chamber okay in the short cylinder guns. Worked okay. I don't see in my handloading notes how much I trimmed off, but it wasn't really a lot.

 

[k22fan]

I just can't understand why anyone would want to put a Colt cylinder on a Smith & Wesson. That's like putting a Ford engine in a Chevy.

Col. Copper told us larger diameter is better. .45 is as big as N frames go so it's gotta be the best. So far S&W has refused to chamber their own .45, the .45 Schofield leaving us to choose between Colt's revolver and auto cartridges. You can't hope none of us would choose the revolver cartridge.

If S&W did chamber .45 Schofield I'd be a buyer. It has more than enough powder capacity.

Now excuse me. I have to go oil my .44s and reassure them that they are still loved.

 

[Hondo44]

Now there's a good reason for a convertible 45 cyl. I'd chamber it for the 45 S&W Special (AKA 45 1906 Frankfort) an authentic cartridge chambering for the N frame very early on. Easy enough to make the brass.

 

[k22fan]

Now there's a good reason for a convertible 45 cyl. I'd chamber it for the 45 S&W Special (AKA 45 1906 Frankfort) an authentic cartridge chambering for the N frame very early on. Easy enough to make the brass.

I'm not saying they wouldn't get my money but I don't see any advantage over the Auto Rim.

 

[THE GUNSMITH]

I like the Auto Rim, shoot it in my 1917 Army. If I want to shoot hot loads and big bullets, I get out one of my Ruger Redhawks.

 

[Hondo44]

I do too. The Auto Rim is much easier than messing with 1/2 or full moon clips. I only use full moon clips in situations where I'd want a fast reload.

 

[ddixie884]

Buff, the 452423 is the EK bullet for the .45AR and is shorter than the 454424 with a wider driving band. Look it up it's a good bullet on it's own.