1976 Merkel SxS

[Bullet Bob]

Most people would put Purdey's in a higher, or at least more expensive, class. My opinion is just based on general reading over many years, I'm a long distance from any sort of expert.

General purpose shotguns in Europe and America were often chambered in long, full-choked barrels because they were thought to "shoot harder". There evidently is some truth to that with older gun powders. These guns were used for everything from squirrels to deer because most users couldn't afford more than one gun.

In the expensive British market the gentleman shooter had no problem ordering more than one gun, with different chokes, for different uses. Since shooting driven birds was the in thing, full chokes weren't needed for that sport.

Interestingly, I have more than once read that when an older fine gun with two sets of barrels is for sale in modern times, you will often find that the shorter, more opened choked set has seen more use than the longer, tighter choked barrels.

 

[Andyd]

The standard choke for Merkel shotguns was 1/2 and full choke. Sometimes the choke is stamped with stars next to the proof stamp.

*= full
**= 3/4
***= 1/2
****= 1/4

 

[Ptarmigan]

The standard choke for Merkel shotguns was 1/2 and full choke. Sometimes the choke is stamped with stars next to the proof stamp.

*= full
**= 3/4
***= 1/2
****= 1/4

Do you think the 1/2 is what we equivocate with improved cylinder, or would it be modified, with the 3/4 being a modified full?

 

[Bill Bates]

I'm going to lay my ignorance right out on the table and ask if most of these fine double guns (Merkel, Purdy, etc.), and in particular those that were made back in the day in Europe were choked full and full?

I'm sure if you commissioned the craftsmen to make one for you they would choke it however you wanted, but what was the "default" choke that was popular then?

This is an interesting question, what was the standard choking.

I've heard it theorized that many rack guns were choked full and full so the buyer could take it to their local gunsmith and have the chokes honed to what they desired. I find with American and continental guns in lower grade full and full is what is encountered most. Most of those would have been rack guns made to stock the worlds gun shops. It makes some sense because every little town had a gunsmith capable of honing a choke as needed.

Others theorized that most were full and full because many hunters on the lower end of the economic scale hunted lots of ground game like rabbit and deer and needed the tighter choking.

As the grade of shotguns goes up; guns seem to be choked all over the place with something approaching improved cylinder- modified being pretty average in hunting guns. That seems to be what is encounter most with vintage English guns.

My favorite side by side is a Belgian gun made for the Boston retailer William Read & Son. They were a higher end dealer. This is a higher grade gun that was obviously a special order gun. This 12 ga. SxS was made about 1900.

The Belgians were required to stamp the choke dimensions on the barrels. This gun was choke from the maker as cylinder and full. That may seem strange but is a very intelligent choking if your are in New England hunting partridge (ruffed grouse to most of us) over a good pointing dog. The choking would also would be great on waterfowl over decoys.

I could honestly go with either of the two theories as to why we so many lower grade American and Continental side by sides chokes as full and full.

 

[Ptarmigan]

I'm learning new things. Now if I could just find a cocktail party where I can work Merkels into the conversation.

 

[Farmer17]

Ugartechea in Spain just went out of business due to the Spanish economy and Europe problems and they were what most side by side experts agree was best of the lower priced shotguns. They did cost about $2,000 for a new, bottom of the line gun up to over $4,000 for upgrade wood and engraving. SKB Japanese shotguns start at around $2,300 and AYA Spanish guns start at around $3,000 are they now the cheapest decent side by sides?

 

[Bullet Bob]

If you're asking about new guns, I don't know. I obviously like Merkel model 8's, and I also like the discontinued Browning BSS. Both of those can be found in excellent condition from somewhere between $1200.00 -2000.00 depending on condition, styles, and accessories.

 

[Bill Bates]

There other reasonably priced doubles out there down in the Uggy price range. There are a couple of Turkish makers that are turning out nice side by side Like the CZ guns by Huglu and the Dickinsons by Akus. Both makers make good serviceable doubles in the $1000-2000 price.

I picked up a DeHaan 28 gauge built by Huglu used down in the lower end of that price range. It has been a great little gun. Its a little shiny and flashy for my taste but I can't fault its function, fit and finish.

Then there is the used market. You can buy a lot of great American andContinental guns in the $1000-2000 price range. Unless I get the urge to have a bespoke gun manufactured I can't see myself ever buying a new side by side.

My DeHaan rainy day gun.

 

[Ptarmigan]

Of all the nice doubles mentioned in this thread, I only have experience with the BSS touted above. It was a fine Japanese made Browning 12 gauge that I acquired in the 1980s while stationed in New England. I bought it new and chose 26" barrels choked modified and improved cylinder. The rod and gun club up there was big on partridge and woodcock and assured me that was the way to go.

It was a fine shotgun, though. And, of course, I wish I still had it.

 

[Bullet Bob]

I have a 20 gauge BSS Sporter, love it.

 

[tops]

I'm learning new things. Now if I could just find a cocktail party where I can work Merkels into the conversation.

If you can't you are traveling in the wrong circles. Larry

 

[Bill Bates]

I'm learning new things. Now if I could just find a cocktail party where I can work Merkels into the conversation.

You're welcome at any of our "cocktail parties". They tend to be low-key and take place around a campfire or by the dog trailer.

If we're not talking about guns, we're bragging on bird dogs and lying about our shooting or the fish we caught. Hopefully cigar smoke doesn't bother you and the bartender only pours one drink, whisky.

We're a scruffy lot but pretty friendly. After the last hunt of last season.

 

[Farmer17]

Quote: "There are other reasonably priced doubles out there down in the Uggy price range. There are a couple of Turkish makers that are turning out nice side by side Like the CZ guns by Huglu and the Dickinsons by Akus. Both makers make good serviceable doubles in the $1000-2000 price. "

Turkey is THE place to get decent cheap SXS right now. I recently bought a brand new Yildiz SXS 20 gauge with surprisingly nice wood and great wood to metal fit, for $487 at Academy Sports. It has done well at the skeet range and on Dove, and I plan to take it Pheasant hunting in Kansas this year. It handles great and works great and hopefully it will serve me well for many years of hunting, but it is NOT a Merkel or Ugartechea. Those guns are a whole different world of quality and workmanship.

 

[tops]

We can't take pictures worth 2 cents but this is my Merkel 26 in. 20 ga., 47E. It is a GDR gun. I had the chokes opened to Cyl. and IC. Larry

 

[raljr1]

I, too have a Simson Suhl in 16 gauge. sweetest, non Smith & Wesson that I own. I paid $350 for it at a local pawn shop i deal with. It may be the prettiest firearm i have.

 

[shouldazagged]

OP, I'm envious.

I love basic double-trigger, extractor-only side-by-sides, and that's a beauty.