1996 Olds Cutlass Supreme issues

[Wayne02]

3.1L, 62,000 miles.

This car seems to have all sorts of problems lately...

1. Check engine light comes on. Scanner says trouble code = PO401, Generic EGR flow insufficient. Replaced egr valve and cleared code. Restart and no check engine light. Drive test and code resets after about 8-12 miles of driving.

Is it possible that the passage up through the manifold is plugged? Even with so little miles on the car? Can that passage be cleaned somehow without taking off the throttle body and assorted accouterments?


2. Right turn signal intermittent failure to work. Bulb is good and turn signal works fine most of the time. Every so often it will fail to turn on when the stalk is moved to the right position. Moving the stalk to the left turn signal position and then back to the right position results in the right turn signal working again.

3. This car eats low beam headlights like they are going out of style. About one per year and they are $32 or so. We seldom ever drive at night so they get very little use.

Any ideas on any of these would be much appreciated.

Wayne

 

[Zilmo]

Time to...... ???

 

[USAF385]

I fix my check engine light issues with black electrical tape.

 

[Spotteddog]

Without being able to lay eyes on it, it's impossible to tell whether or not the TBI and/or manifold can be cleared of carbon W/O pulling either or both?
The T/S issue is quite likely the switch itself, does the "lane change" portion of the switch work, or not?
The headlights can be related to ground issues, as well as physical position putting them in the path of road water. Possible, but not likely the T/S stem causing issues with the dimmer switch. Outside chance, a voltage regulator voltages up @ the high end of the allowable range.
Best answer was the sign!

 

[Wayne02]

I fix my check engine light issues with black electrical tape.

Yeah, I did that right away. I cut the tape so it was contoured to the shape of the dash bezel and it blended in pretty well. It took my wife about a week to notice the tape.

 

[Wayne02]

The T/S issue is quite likely the switch itself, does the "lane change" portion of the switch work, or not?

It works or doesn't work corresponding to whether the signal works or not.

 

[Spotteddog]

Is it a tilt wheel? If so, I'm 75-80% sure it's the switch.
Seriously, call it paranoia on my part, but? I really do think that sales of property whether real or rolling stock, are going to be radically affected by federal regulation in the future. With the EPA being the premier department now, and with it's enforcement becoming very real via the treasury department, things ARE going to change. And fast! Gone soon will be the days of caveat emptor. After the regulation going next through the senate, you'll likely no longer be able to sell a house W/O the G approved windows, furnaces, water heaters, etc. Much less an automobile that can be shown by EPA to be fouling air the progressive's breathe! Were I one owning a lot of titled barely running beaters, I'd be tempted to unload them before the G mandates you do. At your expense of course! JOMO?

 

[2Loud4You]

1) Rarely is it the EGR. Your EGR ports are plugged with carbon. Remove the throttle body and clean the ports.

2) Most likely a faulty switch. I don't remember right off hand if yours would be a "Multi function switch" or if you'll need to remove the steering wheel and fish it down the steering column. If the latter, have fun replacing it!

3) Why are your low beams $32? Admittedly I haven't worked on a '96 Cutlass but their bulbs shouldn't be much different than other '96 GM's. Are you using those damn super bright, blind me at night bulbs? Those go out quick even in brand new cars.

 

[jframe]

Check your sockets on your lighting problems and see if there are other circuits in the EGR system other than just the valve itself. Diagnosis of the the check engine light generally only puts you into the system that is affected, not necessarily the root cause of the problem. For instance, Fords have EGR check engine lights all the time. 99% of the time, the problem is a small valve tied into the EGR valve called the DPFE sensor. This valve is vacuum and electrically operated as well. All these parts stores that are reading check engine lights are making a killing off selling their customers EGR valves on these cars when all they need is this sensor. FWIW, I have a real problem with this, since they tend to refer to us dealerships as "stealerships" and with a certain amount of trepidation. Then they run into a REAL problem and guess who they call? If you are uncertain of the diagnosis, your best bet is ALWAYS your dealer, they have the latest training and software for troubleshooting. Maybe more money, but you are money ahead in the long run. BTW, don't necessarily trade; still cheaper to fix the old one most of the time.

 

[84CJ]

Those super bright bulbs lasted less than a year in my pick-up. Wont be using them ever again.

2loud4you +1

 

[2Loud4You]

For instance, Fords have EGR check engine lights all the time. 99% of the time, the problem is a small valve tied into the EGR valve called the DPFE sensor. This valve is vacuum and electrically operated as well.

If I get a Ford in with an EGR code and I see one of those pot metal DPFE's it's almost certain to be that. I do at least check with my MODIS and Mighty Vac to be able to write down voltages.

 

[Wayne02]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, tilt wheel

Yes, multifunction stalk - washer, cruise, etc

No, no super bright headlamps, just regular old Sylvania low beam sealed units purchased from Shucks. Car has the four small sealed beam lamp system.

 

[2Loud4You]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, tilt wheel

Yes, multifunction stalk - washer, cruise, etc

No, no super bright headlamps, just regular old Sylvania low beam sealed units purchased from Shucks. Car has the four small sealed beam lamp system.

Well the multifunction switch should just remove with a couple bolts and electrical connector. Go to your nearest GM dealer and ask to see a picture of the switch to see if it's the stalk or if it's a "ring" with a long wiring harness attached. This will help you determine whether or not you want to try to tackle it.

Didn't realize GM was still using old style sealed beams in '96. It may be an electrical issue where the bulbs are getting too much voltage but something like can be tricky to track down if it takes a year to burn out.

 

[DelavanKs]

Factory recall

There was a factory recall on the turn signals. Wife had hers fixed a year or so ago.If you were not the first owner you would not have notified. EGR could be a cracked wire where it pluged into the EGR Happened to the wife after three or four trips to the repair shop
Hope this helps
Chuck

 

[Spotteddog]

I couldn't agree more BMC!
I'm just hypothesizing what the logical next steps would be for the proto-Marxist's?
"Control" is a very addictive substance for elected officials to be tempted with.
After all, now that the EPA is designing spec's for our cars and doing "buy backs" of undesirable (to them gas guzzling) models, what's to stop them from putting all beaters past a certain age on a "hit list"?
Answer....Nothing!

 

[m1gunner]

The mid 90s EGR valves in GM engines are bad about getting carbon chunks in them and sticking. This then sets the check engine light (better known as the "I don't trust that car any more" light to my wife).

You can remove ther valve and clean it out. Also clean the exhaust port leading to it (a 45 cal wire brush works good).

After a while you will get good at it, as it will need clening every 4 to 6 thousand miles.

I finally got tired of it and put a sheetmetal blocking plate over the exhaust hole and a small piece of elect tape on the CEL.

The first time the EGR acted up on me, I was 300 miles from home. The nice dealership fixed it for me for $395. With a lifetime guarantee, no less. After 2 trips to GM dealers to get it repaired again (and them wanting to charge $200 for the "free" repair), I started the pull and clean routine. Later is when I finally fixed it.

 

[2Loud4You]

The electrical tape trick may work in some places but in my area emissions tests are required to register the vehicle and Check Engine Lights will make you automatically fail in a '96 or newer vehicle.

 

[m1gunner]

The electrical tape trick may work in some places but in my area emissions tests are required to register the vehicle and Check Engine Lights will make you automatically fail in a '96 or newer vehicle.

It is more Orwellian than that. You are referring to the OBDII systems. The way the emisions test works is the test machine reads your VIN number and all the stored codes in th3 computer. No light need be on during the test for you to fail.

It also reads and records your mileage (electronic odometers are so neat). Guess where the Gov't will be getting the info needed to send you a road tax bill based on the miles you drive a year?

Pollution control equipment used to be warrantied for 100,000 miles (may still be?), and the egr system is part of that, so you should not need tape to pass your test.

 

[2Loud4You]

It is more Orwellian than that. You are referring to the OBDII systems. The way the emisions test works is the test machine reads your VIN number and all the stored codes in th3 computer. No light need be on during the test for you to fail.

It also reads and records your mileage (electronic odometers are so neat). Guess where the Gov't will be getting the info needed to send you a road tax bill based on the miles you drive a year?

Pollution control equipment used to be warrantied for 100,000 miles (may still be?), and the egr system is part of that, so you should not need tape to pass your test.

I'm a mechanic, I know what it reads. If you're '96 and above and your computer turns on the CEL then you will fail. I've NEVER had a customer come in for failed emissions on a '96 and newer car that didn't have a CEL light on UNLESS it was burned out or removed by some sneaky seller. That doesn't mean it can't happen but I've never seen it. That's why I said the tape trick won't work in my area because covering the light doesn't fix the problem.

 

[pred]

EGR could be something as simple as a new gas cap.
If your headlights are on the turn signal switch, It could be faulty. Also where do you park it when not in use could also be an indicator of what the issue is.
Peter

 

[2Loud4You]

EGR could be something as simple as a new gas cap.
If your headlights are on the turn signal switch, It could be faulty. Also where do you park it when not in use could also be an indicator of what the issue is.
Peter

A bad gas cap would throw an EVAP code, not EGR. The gas cap is part of the Evaporative Emissions Control System. This keeps the fumes from escaping into the atmosphere and killing the ozone and Al Gore.

 

[Wayne02]

1) Rarely is it the EGR. Your EGR ports are plugged with carbon. Remove the throttle body and clean the ports.

Yep, looks like this:

Now looks like this:

I tried the frayed throttle cable in a drill motor method hoping to not have to remove the throttle body, but it was so packed on there was no breaking through.

Remember the days when there was enough room in the engine compartment and engine systems were simple enough that if you dropped a bolt it would fall through to the ground????

Wayne ------> who dropped one of the two metric bolts that holds the throttle/cruise cable stand-off bracket to the TB and it did not come out the bottom. Probably only needs one bolt anyway...

 

[2Loud4You]

Yep, looks like this:

Now looks like this:

I tried the frayed throttle cable in a drill motor method hoping to not have to remove the throttle body, but it was so packed on there was no breaking through.

Remember the days when there was enough room in the engine compartment and engine systems were simple enough that if you dropped a bolt it would fall through to the ground????

Wayne ------> who dropped one of the two metric bolts that holds the throttle/cruise cable stand-off bracket to the TB and it did not come out the bottom. Probably only needs one bolt anyway...

Some carb cleaner and an old toothbrush cleans the throttle body up nicely as well.