I prefer single at 3lbs and under with no discernible pre-travel and minimum reset for all applications.
2 Stage vs Single Stage triggers
- Thread starter Rastoff
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agksimon
Member
To get a single stage trigger down to that low of a pull, would require a very weak hammer spring and it might not fire hard primers.
The primary purpose of a two stage AR trigger is to give the shooter a short sear break without compromising safety. The AR trigger has a long pull to ensure there is plenty of sear engagement to prevent sear bounce when the rifle is dropped, bumped or otherwise handled roughly.
The 2 stage G trigger reduces trigger pull, but is designed to increase pull just before the sear releases the hammer.
A crisp 5 lbs trigger with minimal creep and backlash is a joy to shoot.
Bullpup triggers are a completely different breed than AR triggers. Bullpup triggers are often horrible compared to a factory AR trigger.
I like a good trigger, whether it's single stage or two stage. I don't like gritty triggers of any kind. Use the trigger type you like best.
Be wary of single stage triggers with little to no creep. Bump a bolt action rifle with a trigger that has too little sear engagement and it can only fire one shot. Bump a self loading rifle with the same trigger and it's ready to go again and again.
ChattanoogaPhil
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That's one of the reasons I chose a Wilson Combat TTU. Unlike Mistwolf's drop (un)safe description, the TTU prevents the hammer from falling all the way forward unless the trigger is depressed.
Wilson Combat® Exclusive 1911 Style Half-Cock Notch Makes The TTU The Safest AR Trigger on The Market and Allows The TTU to Meet or Exceed Military Specifications For Drop Safety
Wilson Combat® Exclusive 1911 Style Half-Cock Notch Makes The TTU The Safest AR Trigger on The Market and Allows The TTU to Meet or Exceed Military Specifications For Drop Safety
vonn
US Veteran
I had never seen that info on the Wilson trigger,learn something new everyday. Going to check that out more fully.
ChattanoogaPhil
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If dropped or for whatever reason sear engagement fails, the hammer has a notch that will catch the trigger before the hammer reaches the firing pin as long as the trigger is not depressed. At that point everything stops. The hammer cannot fall further forward and the trigger cannot be pulled.
Notice the angle of the hammer having been caught by the Half-Cock Notch design.
Notice the angle of the hammer having been caught by the Half-Cock Notch design.
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While the half cock is a good safety feature, if the hammer does fall, it will need to be re-cocked to fire the weapon. Chances are that your AR won't see handling rough enough to cause sear bounce, but it is something to keep in mind, especially when the AR is slated for a defensive or duty role.
OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
So, what? If a regular trigger group hammer falls, the gun will fire. I'd rather have to re-cock it than have a negligent discharge.
The longer sear engagement of the regular trigger group stops hammer fall to begin with.
The choice is long travel and no hammer fall vs short travel and a half cock in case of hammer fall.
ChattanoogaPhil
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Right.
For the benefit of anyone who might not be familiar... The safety only blocks trigger movement. It does not block the hammer from striking the firing pin.
That's why Mistwolf's earlier comments regarding aftermarket triggers with near zero creep are worthy of consideration. Creep is reduced by reducing the amount of sear/hammer overlap. That overlap is the only thing preventing the hammer from falling forward and striking the firing pin. While loss of sear engagement is uncommon with aftermarket triggers it is worthy of consideration. Warnings you might see about do-it-yourslf trigger jobs honing past the surface hardening is directed at this issue. Loss of surface harding results in greater wear and eventually less sear/hammer overlap.
This is a good video for anyone not familiar with the design.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh2FjzVVIZY[/ame]
agksimon
Member
There is a difference between "honing", which would remove a couple tenths of a thousandth and removing a few thousandths. I have "honed" many trigger hammer to sear contact surfaces (under a lighted magnifier with proper tools) and never remove more than a tenth or two. Surface case hardening penetrates at least .005 or somewhat more, so a tenth or two is negligible.
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Rastoff
US Veteran
A trigger that is built properly will not allow the hammer to fall unless the trigger is pressed. If the safety is set up properly, the trigger cannot move at all. Therefore, even with very little sear engagement, the hammer won't fall as long as the safety is on.
The problem comes when a DIY person doesn't understand the nature of how the safety works with the trigger and sear engagement.
The half cock position on the Wilson trigger will never be used because they know how to properly build a trigger. It's there for piece of mind or some crazy combination of errors (which won't happen unless the user messes with the trigger).
The problem comes when a DIY person doesn't understand the nature of how the safety works with the trigger and sear engagement.
The half cock position on the Wilson trigger will never be used because they know how to properly build a trigger. It's there for piece of mind or some crazy combination of errors (which won't happen unless the user messes with the trigger).
Rough handling does not only occur when the safety is engaged.
This isn't to say that a trigger like the TTU must be avoided at all costs. It's just to say, be aware of the facts when choosing a trigger.
OP
Rastoff
US Veteran
True, but it should be. There is no reason to take the safety off until ready to fire. You're only ready to fire when sighted in on the target.
You cannot account for all possibilities. On a square range, chances of rough handling are all but eliminated with just a little care. But what about on a mountainside? Can you be 100% certain you won't lose your footing just as you are preparing for a shot? Can you be absolutely certain something won't go wrong between the time you disengage the safety and get ready to fire when in a fight?
No. If a soldiers could control all the variables, they would put all the bad luck on their foes and stay home. If it was just a simple matter of trigger discipline, Wilson wouldn't have bothered with a half-cock position on their TTU.
OP
Rastoff
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Truer words have never been spoken. Mr. Murphy is alive and well and wandering the world.
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