22 LR bullet lube, Dry vs greasy

[wetdog1911]

There was an interesting question and discussion over at RFC in the .22 ammo forum. I'll quote the original question, but the last sentence was interesting.

"Does anyone know what lube SK uses??? Is it vaseline? Or-what?
SK is more accurate in my rifles, the first 5 shots of CCI SV is more accurate after firing SK. Anybody??"

My M41 always did Ok with (pre shortage), CCI SV, but just, nothing to write home about. Then a friend got me to try Wolf MT in 2001 or so. It made a noticeable difference across the board, not only in the 41 but in every .22 I owned, from a Ruger MK I to Marlin 39 Mounties, to the CZ 452. Not only more accurate, but the guns seemed to function smoother.

I put it down to much better QC from SK/Lapua, which is certainly the case, but never really considered the lube used. It became my go-to .22 and I bought 2 cases of it. I'm thinking now, that besides the QC, that the lube played a larger part than I gave it credit for in both the improved accuracy and function.

Most U.S. made .22 uses a dry paraffin wax type lube and the Europeans use a beeswax and tallow mixture. Plus, both types have propriarity ingredients beyond the basics and very little is disclosed AFA ingredients.

But other comments such as, "firing one round (SK+), every 5 rounds made bulk ammo shoot better", gave pause for thought.

What do you guys think? Are we not giving the 'greasy kids stuff' enough credit?

Rob

 

[rockquarry]

I've been shooting a good bit of .22 ammo for a long time, mostly CCI SV; I've bought it by the case for at least the last twelve years or so. I shoot it in a variety of rifles and handguns and have never had any of the lube/ wax problems the guys on the rimfire website have on a regular basis. Same with other .22 ammo.

 

[andy52]

I've really never had any real problems with well made .22lr from anywhere in the world.
I had to open up a few boxes to check before I even replied here.
Eley, Lapua, RWS and Aguila seems to have a kinda" wet lube, all the US made are dry as is the Wolf brand.

 

[Kurusu]

I've really never had any real problems with well made .22lr from anywhere in the world.
I had to open up a few boxes to check before I even replied here.
Eley, Lapua, RWS and Aguila seems to have a kinda" wet lube, all the US made are dry as is the Wolf brand.

And, truth be told, I'm not fond of any American made .22s. Except for the old Winchestes, and they had "wet" lube too.

 

[andy52]

And, truth be told, I'm not fond of any American made .22s. Except for the old Winchestes, and they had "wet" lube too.

I did a test series with one of my Winchester model 52s about a year ago with 15 different types top shelf ammo, of all the ammo CCI green tag was the worse and Fiocchi 320 rifle match was the best. The Fiocchi has some sort of micro power lube on it.

 

[mauser9]

Interesting replies. Recall the older Remington Yellow Jacket ammo had a waxy coating applied I believe.

 

[wetdog1911]

I've really never had any real problems with well made .22lr from anywhere in the world.
I had to open up a few boxes to check before I even replied here.
Eley, Lapua, RWS and Aguila seems to have a kinda" wet lube, all the US made are dry as is the Wolf brand.

I'm guessing that the Wolf is the new stuff made by Eley? No idea of the lube Eley uses, but the 'old' Wolf, made by SK was the greasy stuff, just like the SK Standard+.

Rob

 

[OLDSTER]

Interesting thread. I've always used the "driest" .22 LR ammo I can find in my Ruger MKs II and III. In the Rugers, it keeps things cleaner. The Rugers also like to run nearly dry from a mechanical standpoint.

 

[alwslate]

I think just about all .22 ammo has a wax coating on the bullets. It's just
that some brands have more than others and the amount can even vary
from lot to lot. The wax tends to dry and harden over time and is more
obvious with new production lots. Some years ago I did have some RWS
target ammo that did actually have a thin coat of grease on the bullets.
I didn't care for it and the ammo wasn't any more accurate than CCI
standard velocity.

 

[6string]

Thick waxy lube? No thanks!

And, truth be told, I'm not fond of any American made .22s. Except for the old Winchestes, and they had "wet" lube too.

I second Mário's take. I liked old DuPont era Remington match grade 22. (They're not the company they used to be.). The lube was thin and sort of greasy, but not sticky.

The old rumor is, that US ammo makers developed the dry lube for people who carry loose ammo in their pockets. I don't know if that's true, but it sounds like a pretty dumb reason.

-For accuracy work, in match grade arms, I find CCI and a few other domestic brands just do not work for me.
Heck, CCI won't even chamber without a pusher rod in my Hämmerli free pistol.
Maybe they will someday get their QC back up to standards? It used to be a good choice for the finicky M41!
By the way, many savvy bullseye shooters used to put a drop of lube on the tip of the top bullet before loading their magazines.
Maybe that relates to the ideas already posted?

-I would like to see more Norma USA 22 (made by RWS). Very nice stuff. Slippery type lube but not sloppy.

Jim

On the other hand, I'd take the waxy lube over plated or (worst of all) polymer coated 22.

 

[6string]

few years back someone was selling bricks of soviet union era 22 short target ammo, it was made for some Olympic team. Id have to dig the box out but...

It was lubed with a cosmoline derivative that was still greasy after decades in bad storage.

Widener's still sells it. Off topic from the issue of lube, that ammo is known for it's high rate of misfires.
Bad news for folks that still have their old Walther OSPs!

Jim

 

[andy52]

I'm guessing that the Wolf is the new stuff made by Eley? No idea of the lube Eley uses, but the 'old' Wolf, made by SK was the greasy stuff, just like the SK Standard+.

Rob

The Wolf type was the Match Extra, back of the box says made in Germany.

 

[BB57]

I'm guessing that the Wolf is the new stuff made by Eley? No idea of the lube Eley uses, but the 'old' Wolf, made by SK was the greasy stuff, just like the SK Standard+.

Rob

Lapua makes SK Rifle Match, SK Standard Plus and SK Magazine with the same components on the same machines.

Lapua determines what it gets packaged as based on lot testing. Lots that meet the standards for SK Rifle Match are packaged as such. Lots that meet the slightly lower standard of SK Standard Plus are packaged that way. Lots that don't meet either standard are packaged as SK Magazine.

In my experience with all three in my match rifle shooting at 50 yards using A-23-5s, I noted that the difference is in the number of fliers. With SK Rifle Match I can usually shoot a clean 200/200 score. With SK Standard Plus, I'll normally get 1-2 fliers per box of 50 rounds. Those fliers are significant, landing out in the 8 ring, with a resulting 196 to 198 score. Sk Magazine normally has 3-4 fliers per box of 50, again out in the 8 ring, and with a score in the 192-194 range.

On steel plates at 200-250 yards in some wind, I'd use SK magazine all day long as it's about $4.50 per box of 50 and the few fliers are lost in the variation due to wind estimation errors. Shooting a 3P match for score, I prefer the SK Rifle Match, and for practicing I prefer SK Standard Plus. SInce the fliers are significant, it's obvious to me when it's me and when its the ammo.

Sk Standard Plus runs about $5.50 per box of 50, and SK Rifle Match is around $7.50 per box of 50. I normally buy about 2000 rounds at a time, as the price is pretty stable.

----

When Lapua made Wolf Match Extra it was SK Rifle Match in a Wolf box. Similarly, Wolf Match Target was SK Standard Plus in a Wolf box. Same ammo made with the same components on the same machines with the same test standards.

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I own a number of accurate .22 LR rifles suitable for match use or longer range .22 LR shooting and SK Standard Plus shoots very well in nearly all of them:

Anschutz Match 64
Remington 540X
CZ 455 Varmint Heavy
CZ 453 Varmint
CZ 453 American
(2) Winchester Model 52 Sporter (re-issue)
(2) CZ 99 Precision
CZ 513 Farmer
Ruger 77/22

I also have a couple accurate .22 LRs that shoot well with Sk Std Plus, but shoot better with CCI standard velocity. That's an unusual trait in my experience:

Romanian M1969
Remington 541S

In terms of Bullseye pistol shooting, I use CCI SV. It shoots as wella s SK Std Plus in both my High Standard Victors as well as my Ruger Mk I T678 and my Mk II T512. I'm pretty sure any qualitative difference that may exist is beyond my shooting ability to see on the target.

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Lube wise, I've noted that with any standard velocity ammo, it takes about 20-30 rounds to season the bore and get peak accuracy after a cleaning, regardless of the lube used.

After that point, I've noted it takes around 5 rounds on average to acclimate the bore to a new lube after you switch ammunition. In the case of SK's wet lube it takes about 5 rounds for the accuracy to come back after shooting something else. Conversely, if you switch to a dry lubed bullet, it takes about 5 rounds for the effects of the SK lube to disappear.

The SK lube is great stuff, but it has some downsides. It is dirt magnet - drop one in your pocket and it'll come out lint covered, Drop one in the dirt and it'll come back really dirty. The lube also wides off fairly easily and that will degrade its accuracy.

As a result, for small game hunting or other activities where ammo might live loose in a pocket for awhile, I'll normally use CCI Standard Velocity. In my experience CCI SV and SK Std Plus shoot to slightly different zeros, both in elevation and windage, despite having the same bullet weights and very similar advertised velocity (1066 fps for SK and 1070 fps for CCI SV). Consequently, I'll leave rifles I plan to use for small game hunting or plinking zeroed with CCI SV. CCI SV is around $3.50 per box although now and then I find it on sale for around $25 per 500 and stock up (I bought 9000 rounds last spring).

-----

Ballistic coefficient wise, I get good results using a BC of .132 with the SK ammo and that's consistent with their publishes numbers for Midas, etc. CCI publishes .105 for CCI SV, but I get better alignment between the predicted and actual impact out around 200 yards using .120.

 

[wetdog1911]

BB57

THANKS!! You covered the most salient and informative points of a 3 page thread in just one reply. I've already re read it once and likely will again, there is a LOT of information packed in there, both obvious and implied. Thanks, again!

Rob

 

[29aholic]

Used to be a guy over on the Snioer's Hide that had an in depth study on 22lr and the different lubes.