22 vs 38 vs 44 totally non-scientific terminal ballistics test

[kamloops67]

hello all,
couple months ago i had a "i wonder what would happen if..." moment.
there was a couple hundred lbs of lead muffins in the back of my truck and i had a few toys out at the range.
the results arent shocking but they certainly are thought provoking.
this thread may get moved but it is intended as an addendum to the "22 for conceal carry" thread.
i am in no way saying the 22 is a great defense round, but i do believe the diminutive round does not get the respect it deserves. see how the round performs compared to other non magnum rounds
these are 22lr federal bulk ammo fired from 15 yds from a 22a 5 1/2" barrel

these are 38 spl 158 gr lrn pushed by 3.8 gr 231 from a 5 1/2" new vaquero about 780 fps?
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this one surprised me 44 mag 240 gr lswc pushed by 6.2 gr. 231 for about 820 fps (a stand in for a 44 spl). accurate as heck but doesnt seem to hit very hard. this round would have been my s.d. choice prior to this "test". fired from a 4 1/4 " 629
[URL=http://s1094.photobucket.com/user/kamloops67/media/IMGP0179.jpg.html]
this is a federal american eagle 44mag 240 gr sjhp i fired a little off center (oops) but you get the idea. the jacket was nowhere to be found but the bullet is still fused in the crater.

this is a federal american eagle 357 mag jsp fired from a 6" m28 it left a massive crater compared to the little 38s and it nearly penetrated the muffin leaving a slight bump on the backside the jacket was gone but the bullet is fused into the muffin much like the 44 did.
in closing i would say the 22lr is far from useless. it penetrates further than some non-magnum rounds . it doesnt have the knock down power of the heavier bullet ,but if you kill something it generally falls down by its self.

 

[roundgunner]

Pretty interesting, I have never shot ingots before but the 22 did leave a nasty mark. I still think I want something between 100 and 200k power factor.

 

[LVSteve]

.22 is a nasty little bugger with sufficient velocity. It penetrates and bounces off bones ending up in all kinds of unfortunate places.

 

[scooter123]

.22 is a nasty little bugger with sufficient velocity. It penetrates and bounces off bones ending up in all kinds of unfortunate places.

Have to agree with this. Back in the 70's when I was attending Ohio State I drove a Taxi to pay the bills and an ER Surgeon was a regular fair. He absolutely HATED the 22LR, those light bullets would bounce around in the abdomen like a pinball and create all sorts of bleeders. That meant hours on the table and a very unpredictable outcome.

A jacketed 9mm or 357 would normally just go straight through and produce a nice identifiable wound path. If nothing major was hit treatment might entail nothing more than a bandage on the entry and exit wounds.

A 22 might not kill you quickly but they can kill so it's a caliber worth as much respect as any other handgun round.

 

[Rick_A]

What sticks in my mind most concerning 22lr is one of those biographies on TV concerning a certain mob running around in the 70's and 80's. One gentleman attempted to end another with a small .22lr auto at point blank range. IIRC four rounds were fired into the back of his skull. All rounds traveled under the skin and exited his right cheek under the eye. He turned around, beat his attacker down, and fled relatively unharmed.

Unpredictable is synonymous with unreliable.

 

[KSCowboy]

I think those are quite artistic........well done.

 

[kamloops67]

I think those are quite artistic........well done.

thank you, i thought they were pretty neat too.

 

[kamloops67]

What sticks in my mind most concerning 22lr is one of those biographies on TV concerning a certain mob running around in the 70's and 80's. One gentleman attempted to end another with a small .22lr auto at point blank range. IIRC four rounds were fired into the back of his skull. All rounds traveled under the skin and exited his right cheek under the eye. He turned around, beat his attacker down, and fled relatively unharmed.

Unpredictable is synonymous with unreliable.

i guess some mobsters are pretty thick headed

 

[gaucho1]

First time I have seen lead used as a ballistic target medium.

Interesting results, given the combination of very high density and soft malleability.

Thanks for an interesting post.


Where's Sip?

 

[Fishslayer]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I've always figured that given the choice of rocks or a .22 I would take the .22.

Somebody once said that 6 hollow points center mass is more effective than one .44 slug that misses.

 

[rojodiablo]

22 do not feel really good when deposited into your LEG.

Just sayin'.

I am still here, but I could have done without that little side track in the game of life. Just glad it was not from a rifle; it would have carried more velocity and been more of a problem.
And, glad as hell it was not a HP; the round was a copper coated Remington solid. Easy to get fished out.

 

[kamloops67]

22 do not feel really good when deposited into your LEG.

Just sayin'.

I am still here, but I could have done without that little side track in the game of life. Just glad it was not from a rifle; it would have carried more velocity and been more of a problem.
And, glad as hell it was not a HP; the round was a copper coated Remington solid. Easy to get fished out.

did you give yourself a quick draw lesson? sounds painful for sure

 

[rojodiablo]

Nope. Hunting accident. Sidearm used mostly for snakes and harassing squirrels and rabbits.

Lots of explaining to do to the doctor when this happens. They want to call the police, seeing as you are teenagers and now you have sprung a leak, and they found of all things a bullet in you and not a cactus spine (Which is what I actually thought had happened.)

Still better than when the guy shot at me in anger a bunch of years later; I did not appreciate that much at all. Especially since he used a larger pistol. That time..... I was fully expecting him to be armed when breaking into my truck- though I will say I did not really 'expect' him to take a shot at me. It took me by surprise, and I was glad he missed. Then again, I returned the favor that time.

 

[Clean Break]

Nice post, especially since the main handgun rounds I shoot are .22lr, .38 spl and .44 (spl and mag.). I've never felt undergunned with my 6.5" Ruger Super Single Six and it's .22 long rifle rounds. I've killed so many things with it over the years over such a variety of distances. 285 lb. hogs up close, racoons, oppossums, squirrels, rabbits, rats.... hit them in the right place and they go down. It is a lot better than a rock or a stick. It is a lot better than a dinky, tip up barrel snubby too.

When I want to significantly raise the range/power/capability/success factors from my favorite handgun, I generally reach for a long gun, and that's a 12 gauge, .303 or .338, not one of my wider handguns.

Clean Break

 

[silentflyer]

How much did the blocks of lead move about on impact? Which one moved the most?

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

the non scientific tests are always the most fun to do!! Like the time me and my dad conducted penetration test of a .25 in a phone book while in the living room. Mom was NOT HAPPY
Pretty neat plus you can recycle the lead.

 

[kamloops67]

How much did the blocks of lead move about on impact? Which one moved the most?

as you would guess the heavier /higher velocities moved the ingots the most .
the 22s were leaned up against a rock or something so they didnt move a lot. the 38s knocked the muffins over had to be reset for each shot the light 44 sent the ingot several feet and the magnums sent them about 10-12 feet down range .
wish id tried a 12 gauge
test #2 coming up ha ha

 

[gaucho1]

It finally came to me...........sectional density................longer relative to
diameter is a higher SD.

Tends to promote penetration..........why high heels and .22s go deeper
than you would expect.

 

[kamloops67]

It finally came to me...........sectional density................longer relative to
diameter is a higher SD.

Tends to promote penetration..........why high heels and .22s go deeper
than you would expect.

i think the velocity helps too, those little bullets are doing 1200 fps or so.
ive also heard that those little tokarevs make a mess out of steel targets for the same reason

 

[gaucho1]

Velocity...............Yes

Weight.........Yes

Bullet construction....Yes..Yes