.22 wheel gun with a decent da trigger?

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Shibadog

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Guys, does (literally) anybody make a smaller .22 mag (or even .22 LR) revolver with a decent DA trigger? I had a nice 351PD, nice to carry, shot accurately SA, but DA was an abomination. My wife could barely pull it through and I couldn't shoot it accurately DA. Pull was off the scale on trigger gauge. Gunsmith buddy says " I can get the pull down like a good J frame, BUT doing so will destroy reliability. ". He's pretty sharp so I let it go. It also had THE tightest chambers I have ever encountered on any firearm. I had an old yellow box of Winchester .22 Mag that absolutely NOT chamber, and the rounds that would chamber would start sticking after a few cylinders had been fired. Annoying, but I could have lived with that, but that trigger pull🙄. Anyway, anybody know of ANY brand that'll work? Looking for something for her to carry here on the farm. Thanks!
 
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The tight chambers can cause misfires because the rounds cannot move freely in the gun. When the rounds don't quite go in all the way, the firing pin is seating them on the first hit. This is a shock absorber keeping the rim from being fully dented to cause ignition. Rimfire ammo is finicky enough without adding that to the mix. Ream the chambers to SAMMI specs, then start looking for other causes if needed.

I have been seeing Remington Wheelgun ammo in both rimfire and centerfire on YouTube, new for this year. I don't know if any is for sale yet, or how well it works.
 
Shibadog said:
Guys, does (literally) anybody make a smaller .22 mag (or even .22 LR) revolver with a decent DA trigger? I had a nice 351PD, nice to carry, shot accurately SA, but DA was an abomination. My wife could barely pull it through and I couldn't shoot it accurately DA. Pull was off the scale on trigger gauge. Gunsmith buddy says " I can get the pull down like a good J frame, BUT doing so will destroy reliability. ". He's pretty sharp so I let it go. It also had THE tightest chambers I have ever encountered on any firearm. I had an old yellow box of Winchester .22 Mag that absolutely NOT chamber, and the rounds that would chamber would start sticking after a few cylinders had been fired. Annoying, but I could have lived with that, but that trigger pull🙄. Anyway, anybody know of ANY brand that'll work? Looking for something for her to carry here on the farm. Thanks!
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The Colt King Cobra Target .22 has a pretty nice DA pull. It's around 9 lbs and very smooth out of the box. I don't know of anything that is better. The problem you're going to run into is rimfires need a fairly heavy hammer spring for reliability, so you can't get quite as nice a DA pull on a rimfire as you can with a centerfire and still have 100% reliability. The S&W 617 can be pretty easily tweaked to be about as good as the Colt KC, but again, you have to be careful with rimfires if you want it to go bang every time you pull the trigger
 
A couple of things you might try, it worked for me. a 13 or 14lb rebound spring, that small light gun with a heavy trigger is not a good combination, while your under the hood put a drop of Lucus gun oil on all moving parts. if there is anything like oil in the chambers the ammo will start sticking. Place a small amount of J-B bore paste on a brass bore brush, and clean the chambers, and bore well. have a new 617 with the ammo sticking, 2-3 trips to the range, clean each trip, problem solved, tried 4-5 brands ammo, Federal was the best for sticking in a new gun. My J-Frame 637 is the one I changed the rebound spring to a 14 lb. just my 2 cents, Good Luck Clifford..
 
Apex has an aftermarket K/L frame trigger that is meant to improve rimfire DA, called the Mass Driver. The downside (besides expense) is the hammer drop dwell is longer than usual because of the increased mass of the hammer.
 
I'm not a guy, but I'll answer the question. 😀When I walk in the woods, hiking & such, I carry a S&W .38 model 64 snubblie (1989) with snake shot. There are TWO different types of snake shot. I usually place it in the first 3 or 4 rounds. I vary the chambers to my adventures. It is a very heavy revolver, but I am very accurate with it, the double action trigger is very smooth. Because of the weight, I feel very little recoil. The grips are replaceable, so I bought/swapped new Houge grips that fit my hand. There are TWO different kinds of snake shot ammo!! The .38 gives me more ammo choices than a 22 caliber.
I've handled other revolvers at shows, there is no comparison to the smoothness (accuracy?) of my S&W. Good Luck!
 
I don't recall ever using double-action in firing any of my Colt or S&W .22 revolvers. The newest one I've had more than fifteen years. I may have to try double-action some time.
 
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It is simple physics, there are no J Frame size guns that work well with a DA trigger in rimfire. NONE. The best design that works with the physics issue is the Ruger LCR.

It is not even close to what you can get with light springs in a centerfire. Two things MUST happen with the rimfire. First the cylinder must be big enough and clean enough to let the round go fully in 100% of the time. A rough chamber or dirty one will not support the rim against the cylinder and start having misfires as the gun gets dirty. This is always operator error. The simply fix to that issue is honing every cylinder to a mirror finish and periodically polishing them. I use Flex Hones, they are perfect, I use them on every new gun and periodically as round count gets high.

Second is spring weight. The center fires work great with Wolff reduced spring weights, the rimfires do not. They will always fail quicker when they gun gets dirty. We tried using reduced springs in both the 22 and 22 mag, they work a while then start to fail. The 22 mag is harder to ignite. We tried a 22 mag cylinder in an original model 63, a common conversion. It had a 50% fail rate, the 22 mag needs a stronger spring to be reliable.

We have a dozen J Frames in center fire. Any reduced power spring will work pretty well in them. Federal primers are softer and work with very light springs. But the spring power for the SW rimfires is nearly double what a centerfire is to be reliable.

The model 351 for example is a desirable little gun that weighs nothing. But every CCW gun must be capable of single hand fire, simple deal as everyone knows. Your strong hand may be injured. So try those with one hand or off hand DA fire. I have a gorilla grip, but cannot shoot those well with one and, I can shoot all the J frame centerfire, K frames, N frames and even the Governor with one hand, I cannot the little 22 mag, just takes too much spring.


The Ruger LCR has a totally different fulcrum inside and requires less pressure. I do not like those guns, but they are great if you want a CCW in 22 mag.

Just physics. Comments about centerfires are not relevant and confuse people.

We also have in the family, J frames made by Rossi and Tauruss. Exactly the same deal. You cannot reduce DA trigger pull much and keep them reliable.

The simple fix to these issues is simply to fire single action. It is not complicated and people have been doing it for 300 years. Just saying..
 
I am the proud owner of a S&W Model 17 and a S&W Model 63. The Model 17 is an excellent revolver. Great trigger, 6 inch barrel is well balanced. Lots of fun to shoot.

The Model 63, on the other hand, not so much. I bought it in the early 80's for my wife so that she would have a quality, stainless, reliable handgun to take to the range. I was most disappointed. The trigger pull was off the charts. The cylinder would often hang up between rounds, though not consistently which made the revolver completely unreliable. I took it to a local gun smith and had him do a "trigger job". The gun came back in the same poor condition. I suspect the gunsmith either didn't know what he was doing or did nothing and just took my money.

Anyway, the gun rests comfortably in the back of the gun safe, waiting to find a home as a shiny paper weight.

Cannon Master I
 
I had T K Customs do an action job on my 617. The trigger pull is excellent. Smooth as silk. I don't have a gauge so can't tell you the weight.
 
Shibadog said:
Guys, does (literally) anybody make a smaller .22 mag (or even .22 LR) revolver with a decent DA trigger? I had a nice 351PD, nice to carry, shot accurately SA, but DA was an abomination. My wife could barely pull it through and I couldn't shoot it accurately DA. Pull was off the scale on trigger gauge. Gunsmith buddy says " I can get the pull down like a good J frame, BUT doing so will destroy reliability. ". He's pretty sharp so I let it go. It also had THE tightest chambers I have ever encountered on any firearm. I had an old yellow box of Winchester .22 Mag that absolutely NOT chamber, and the rounds that would chamber would start sticking after a few cylinders had been fired. Annoying, but I could have lived with that, but that trigger pull🙄. Anyway, anybody know of ANY brand that'll work? Looking for something for her to carry here on the farm. Thanks!
Click to expand...
The heavy trigger on the 22 rimfire cartridge revolver is the result of the varying thickness/hardness of the 22 rimfire cases. The manufacturers of the ammunition cannot control this variable. To make a DA revolver reliable the firearm manufacturers install a heavy hammer/mainspring. I have tried to install a standard centerfire spring into a M-63 rendering the firearm unreliable in DA operation.
 
I put dummy rounds in and dry fire 2000 times. It makes a noticeable difference. I never had to change springs. Worked on all my J-Frames and worked very good on my 942 Taurus IMG_0249.jpeg
 
I own15 J frame rimfires and 25 K frame rimfires. I shoot them regularly. The J frames will shoot just as well as the K frames. All but 3 of the revolvers were made before 1980. My wifes 317 has a good double action trigger and shoots well. Practice! practice! practice!
 
My Model 17 with added Target Hammer-Trigger and a little tuning is pretty smooth.
63 - 2 and a 4, 651, with no mods - not so much!
 
I've got a 43x bought new last last year. The DAO trigger weight isn't all that bad. Too bad I can say that about the rest of the gun presently.

I've also got a Model 18-4 and a 34. The 18 got a trigger job back in the early 90s and is very low effort and smooth. It also came with a tsrget hammer so it may handle difficult primers better. The 34 was incredibly stiff. I tried to have the same action job performed, but all that was done was polishing the surfaces so it's smoother. They left the springs alone so it would bust primers. I would occasionally get misfires in all three revolvers, have attributed them to duds, particularly if they won't fire a second time.

While it's not a revolver, a Taurius TX22 is an incredible value, great shooter, and very reliable. They might be a good option. The trigger is light and crisp. And it comes with a manual safety. The only drawback is the grip circumference maybe a bit much for s hands.
 
Rule3 said:
Ruger Lcr or lcrx
Great trigger light weight
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i still have a ruger lcr 22lr dao snubbie, but im unsure why. when shooting rapidly for practice (a 22lr bee swarm is how i would use any 22lr handgun for protection) one can short stroke the long trigger reset and thus bind the cylinder. thus the lcr isn't particularly suitable for protection unless one overcomes the temptation to quickly let it rip. with a short sight radius and no single-action capability the lcr is not accurate enough to serve as an outdoors kit gun.

my s&w 317 alloy cylinder would faithfully heat-bind after 30ish steady range shots. my taurus 94 single- and double-action's hard trigger pulls were both totally unworkable. these two revolvers are gone.

i have concluded that a 22lr handgun is best had as a single-action revolver (my several are by ruger) or as a top shelf semiauto pistol (mine is a ruger sr22).
 
I have a few 17's and a pre 17. All have spring kits and a 48. My buddy used to have a 51 that was sweet. I have little interest in new revolvers. My vote would be a older smith.
 
A rimfire J-frame will never have quite as good a DA trigger pull as a centerfire OR a rimfire in a larger frame revolver. The reason is twofold. First, a J-frame uses a coil mainspring riding on a spring stirrup rather than the leaf mainspring as used on all other frame sizes. The coil spring on the stirrup stacks during compression and also encounters friction as it slides along the stirrup. It's never quite as smooth and linear feeling as a leaf spring. Secondly, the smaller J-frame has a correspondingly smaller hammer of lower mass. It thus must be accelerated with a heavier spring to reliably ignite rimfires, requiring the stronger mainspring.

I have successfully improved my M63 j-frame trigger to a respectable DA pull that is reasonably light at around 8 lbs and somewhat smooth while being 100% reliable (so far). I slightly reduced the mainspring tension with a Wolff 9 lb replacement spring (factory j-frame rimfire hammer spring weight is 10.5 to 12 lbs, depending on model), polishing the hell out of the spring stirrup, and dry firing the everloving hell out of it (with snap caps) until she smoothed up nicely. I also replaced the rebound spring to a 14lb spring (factory rebound spring weight is 18 lbs). You have to be careful with spring replacements, more so in J-frame rimfires, as you can easily go too light and get excessive light strikes.

If you want the best trigger pull possible in a S&W rimfire revolver and trigger quality is more important than the size of the gun, don't get a J-frame, get a K-frame M17 or M617. In general, with the K-frame leaf spring driven actions, somewhere around 7.5 lb and up is where you start to get reliable ignition.
 
SASFixer said:
The heavy trigger on the 22 rimfire cartridge revolver is the result of the varying thickness/hardness of the 22 rimfire cases. The manufacturers of the ammunition cannot control this variable. To make a DA revolver reliable the firearm manufacturers install a heavy hammer/mainspring. I have tried to install a standard centerfire spring into a M-63 rendering the firearm unreliable in DA operation.
Click to expand...
Oh I understand the rationale involved, I'm just surprised somebody hasn't found a way to resolve the problem (dual firing pins? Heavier hammer? Different hammer geometry?). I've often wondered why mfrs do not put a dual firing pins in their firearms as a matter of course. Two pins, hitting at the same time on opposite sides of the rim should basically resolve the rim fire "ftf" thing.
 
A long time ago I ran across the book, "The Secrets of Double Action Shooting" by Bob Nichols.
All I had was an H&R Model 676. It had a very heavy trigger pull. None the less, I was able to consistently hit cans and bottles (I don't shoot bottles anymore) at 25 yards and further.
To this day I rarely shoot my revolvers single action. Even my S&W 34 J frame with it's "J Frame Trigger".

Amazon sells that book. I urge you to get it.
 
Shibadog said:
I've shot an old Single Six and a Bearcat for decades without issues, just really want a handy DA with a good trigger. I may just wind up with an older K22
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A bigger revolver maybe the solution. In the 80 I purchased a M-17/6" which can't recall any FF in DA. I sold it to a friend and purchased a M-63 to replace it. I found the M-17 too large for the female hand. At the time I was training ladies frequently in basic handgun marksmanship. The 63 has had a pot load of rounds fired in it.
 
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