22LR semi auto dilemma: Ruger, Browning, High Standard

Last summer I had an itch that needed scratching. I have a High Standard Tournament and it shoots way better than I do. I wanted to do a comparison of an array of the more common vintage target 22 pistols. I got a variety pistols like: the Browning Medalist and Challenger, S&W Model 41's, Colt Match Target and Woodman and various levels of High Standard. All shot better than I do, but the High Standard Tournament is the one I usually take to shoot. But that's just me. Thanks! Mick
 
New Rugers, Brownings and S&Ws are not the same kind of guns as the milled steel of yesterday. It's apples and oranges. I can't think of one 22 pistol today that is as good as the older models. Yea you can buy X and then order up a bunch of aftermarket parts to make it shoot decent. Far as I'm concerned they should just sell them it kit form. You can still find 41s in nice shape for $1k, keep it in good shape and still have a $1K gun.

He has a point. Also the kit guns will never have the feel or the inherent accuracy of the guns that cost $1K and above.
 
Browning Buckmark 5.5 or Smith 41

Have a Buckmark for about 25 years. Excellent and reliable. Easy to mount a scope. Didn’t break one part until about 24 years. Added a Volquartsen hammer made trigger better(stock was better than a equivalent Ruger). I know a Smith 41 is a bit more expensive but worth it. Way better trigger and more accurate. I hit clay pigeons at 50yds with mine rested. Tried a new Ruger with the fluted 7” barrel couple years ago. Trigger stunk
 
HS are wonderfully accurate pistols. The issues are basically standard velocity ammo which is minor and finding good magazines which is more of a problem. The big advantage of the Ruger MK series is you don't have to deal with either issue.

For me, particularly since a balance issue due to a brain tumor means I'm never going to be worth a flip as a bullseye shooter, means my old HS went away and I bought a Ruger. The Ruger is considerably more accurate than I'm capable of. Also I don't feel badly about carrying the Ruger around for use as a field gun.

If you have the ability to really shoot well, get a HS or a S&W41. A 41 will cost more but magazines are easier to deal with. Personally I think a good HS is slightly more accurate than the 41 and the HS always felt better in my hands which is highly subjective.

As for the Buckmark, I think they are in the same class as the Ruger. That makes them pretty good pistols for the price. Again highly subjective but the Ruger feels better in my hands.

So if you're really serious about accuracy go w the HS or the 41. Pick whichever feels better to you. If you just want a pretty good 22 semi to have fun with, either the Ruger or the Buckmark will serve you well. Finally for what it's worth, I actually shoot my 6" M617 better than my Ruger. The Ruger is just more convenient for plinking being magazine fed.
 
It is really tough to beat any of the High Standards. I see the the sport king as an equivalent to the Ruger Mark series. The Victor is an incredibly accurate target gun and a step up from the sport king or Rugers Mark series guns. The Medalist I am sure is on par with the Victors but have never had or shot one myself. I have a Ruger mark II and 4 different High Standards and I am happy and will never need more.
 

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Just a little anecdote about the Ruger Mark series 1, II, & III.

I was instructing the Personal Protection classes for the Enhanced
Concealed Weapons License for a few years before I retired. Probably
had a few hundred students in that time.

One of the class requirements was for each student to fire 100 rounds
on the range. Paper plates were used for targets, shooting from various
distances. They would record the number of holes in their plate as part
of their class grade.

During that time I only had two students with perfect scores of 100.
The were both using Ruger Marks I, II, or III.
 
Slightly off topic, I apologize, but have you looked at the Smith & Wesson Model 22A or 22S? They are available used. Fun, inexpensive pistols that took almost any ammo right out of the box. Maybe not serious competition pistols for some, but great plinkers for all.
 

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Quick background, owned a 1976 High Standard Citation, bull barrel 5.5 and an amazing target adjustable trigger, target sights and factory target grip.........been missing it!

Or, do I just go back and find a nice old High Standard that already has amazing sights grips and trigger but certainly doesn't come cheap but then again by the time I mod up the Ruger or Browning the price equals or may exceed.

Karl
Karl,
You had one
You liked it
Why would you try something that is foreign to you that you might have to learn to like?

hs-trophy3s.jpg

Get another High Standard
 
HS are wonderfully accurate pistols. The issues are basically standard velocity ammo which is minor and finding good magazines which is more of a problem. The big advantage of the Ruger MK series is you don't have to deal with either issue.

For me, particularly since a balance issue due to a brain tumor means I'm never going to be worth a flip as a bullseye shooter, means my old HS went away and I bought a Ruger. The Ruger is considerably more accurate than I'm capable of. Also I don't feel badly about carrying the Ruger around for use as a field gun.

If you have the ability to really shoot well, get a HS or a S&W41. A 41 will cost more but magazines are easier to deal with. Personally I think a good HS is slightly more accurate than the 41 and the HS always felt better in my hands which is highly subjective.

As for the Buckmark, I think they are in the same class as the Ruger. That makes them pretty good pistols for the price. Again highly subjective but the Ruger feels better in my hands.

So if you're really serious about accuracy go w the HS or the 41. Pick whichever feels better to you. If you just want a pretty good 22 semi to have fun with, either the Ruger or the Buckmark will serve you well. Finally for what it's worth, I actually shoot my 6" M617 better than my Ruger. The Ruger is just more convenient for plinking being magazine fed.

Accuracy wise the Rugers will still shoot better than anyone other than a truly distinguished shooter. However, even as an average shooter, I still score about 10 more points per match with a High Standard Victor than I do with my Ruger Mk I 678 Target (and I shoot it better than my Mk II 512 Target).

As for the accuracy of the High Standard Victor, these are five shot groups of CCI standard velocity fired at 50' shot with a Victor and a 2x scope with my hand resting on a bag for zeroing purposes. I'm still the limiting factor:

6EEC2706-7AEB-4FA9-8595-E8E219AD5A80_zpsedmsgfy6.jpg

C1469A6A-E74B-448C-8FC3-B7B7F0780E74_zpsp18ugumb.jpg


Offhand, single hand I shoot like this:

CBA473B1-59D0-4570-8EB9-48B271367839_zpstnbsutas.jpg


So while I do a bit better with the better trigger on the Victor, any of the pistols in this thread are probably more accurate than any of the shooters in this thread when it comes to single hand offhand bullseye shooting.

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Magazines for the High Standard are harder to find and they'll cost you about $55 when you find them. Inerarmstx.com is your best source. They make quality magazines that fit both the newer and older Victors very well.

I do however recommend you also spend $45 or so on a magazine adjustment tool. Half the old High Standard and newer Interarmstx magazines I have purchased have needed some minor feed lip adjustment to function reliably in both my Hamden marked Victors. The original HS magazines feed a bit smoother but the Interarmstx magazines are well made, reliable and have lips that are thick enough and hard enough to stay in tune over time, as long as you don't drop them on the feed lips.

The feed lip adjustment is critical as the High Standard pistols do not have a feed ramp, so the bullet has to feed from the magazine at the right angle to have the bullet enter the chamber. If the bullet sits to high in the magazine, it'll impact the barrel above the chamber. Too low and it'll either impact the barrel below the feed ramp, or in a less severe too low condition, shave some lead off the bullet on the way in the chamber. I've noted the bullet needs to sit slightly higher in the magazinze with the Interarmstx magazines than in the original HS magazines to feed reliably.

-----

Ruger magazines are about half as expensive and the factory Ruger magazines hold up well. But I've also had older magazines come out of tune as well.

----

FWIW, the Kimber 1911 .22 LR and CZ Kadet magazines are the best .22 LR magazines I have found. They are durable and relentlessly reliable.
 
***I really want to thank everyone for their input***

There are many good points made here. I took the liberty yesterday to put several models of the Ruger in my hands, they just aren't a natural for me. More thought was given to the investment into the gun to make it what I know I want and all of this has guided me back to looking for just the right High Standard:)
I also handled a few of the Browning Buckmarks, they had a more natural fit to me than the Rugers. I appreciate the reinforcements given, I need to pursue another High Standard to make me happy...........So the search begins:)
It is a little hard for me to buy the older guns off Gunbroker not really knowing the real story and function of them. My local gun shows rarely have something like this show up, I will keep and eye on my local Armslist so that I can handle it before I buy it, so I guess Citation or Victor is on my radar............Many thanks to everyone!
Karl
 
I don´t have a Browning or a Ruger, never even held any of them. Imported firearms are somewhat hard to come by down here. You get what you can and better be happy with what you have, but I think I´m fortunate enough to own a 1956 3rd gen Colt Mt, a mint 1947 Hi-Standard HD Military and a pristine S&W model 17 no dash.
They suffice and I´m both happy and proud to be their caretaker for the time being. They are also a good reminders of a time that won´t come back.

Regards, Ray
 
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***I really want to thank everyone for their input***

There are many good points made here. I took the liberty yesterday to put several models of the Ruger in my hands, they just aren't a natural for me. More thought was given to the investment into the gun to make it what I know I want and all of this has guided me back to looking for just the right High Standard:)
I also handled a few of the Browning Buckmarks, they had a more natural fit to me than the Rugers. I appreciate the reinforcements given, I need to pursue another High Standard to make me happy...........So the search begins:)
It is a little hard for me to buy the older guns off Gunbroker not really knowing the real story and function of them. My local gun shows rarely have something like this show up, I will keep and eye on my local Armslist so that I can handle it before I buy it, so I guess Citation or Victor is on my radar............Many thanks to everyone!
Karl

I'm with you Karl. I bought both of mine from "local" gun shops (one was a state away but I dropped in while visiting family and had it shipped home).

With the High Standard pistols if they've been shot a LOT with high velocity ammo they can develop a crack in the frame on the right side where the frame is thinner to accommodate the slide release. I always like to inspect them in person before buying.
 
With respect to the Ruger MKIV.... does anyone do a trigger job or just drop in a replacement?
Thx

the cost of a trigger job is about what the Volquartsen kit is. Lower 2 pound range is very common for the VQ kit.

Sarona Gun Works should be able to do a trigger job. The bonus is that the upper is the registered part. You could just mail the lower in a Priority Mail box.

Dennis does rework factory triggers, hammers and sears for Ruger Mark/22-45 pistols.
 
You people are horrible enablers!

I once owned a High Standard Supermatic Citation Model 104, but I let it go back in 1995. Now this thread has me wishing to replace it.

I think if I should get another HS I will try the Military model for the 1911 grip. Any advice?

Curl
 
I've owned several S&W 41's over the years. They're great guns with fantastic triggers, but the Rugers with a little trigger work seem to shoot just about as well for me. They also won't get beat up with high velocity ammo the way a 41 can. The 41 is great, but I've never been impressed with the cheaper S&W 22's.

I've owned a couple High Standards over the years and they were o.k, but for some reason they just weren't for mel. I still have an original Browning Challenger that has a great trigger and is super accurate. But if buying a gun for anything short of serious competition, it would be a Ruger Mk IV. My current Mk IV with a Volquartsen trigger is great.
 
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