2400 in 38 spl?

[rustypigeon]

I just picked up a jug of 2400 today for making some 357 mag loads. I happened to notice that there is data out there for using 2400 for 38 special 158 grain projectiles. I was thinking that 2400 would be a bit too slow for a 38 special. (I have a 2" and a 4" 38 spl)

Has anyone ever tried 2400 in a 38 special? Is it even worth bothering? I have always stuck with W231 for my 38 but if there is any advantage to using 2400 I would be willing to give it a try.

 

[jp zanoya]

I have used it in "Keith" loads with 158-168 gr cast bullets, but ONLY in my N framed Heavy Duty.
These loads can be found on the Internet...

 

[canoe on the yukon]

I suppose it might be functional but not efficient.2400 pretty well demands a fairly high level of pressure.Excellent for your 357 but I'd use a faster powder for the 38.

 

[moxie]

To push any given bullet at a given velocity, it takes nearly twice as much 2400 as it does Unique and just about twice as much as Bullseye. So there's no value added. The same applies to W231. I think 2400 comes into its own with hotter magnum .357 and .44 loads. That's what I reserve 2400 for.

 

[Erich]

I've used it with 158-grainers, and found that it's horrendous with today's published data. Dirty, unburnt powder, gi-normous spreads. Awful.

At pressures that were published until SAAMI suddenly declared steel to have gotten weaker back around '73 or so, it works better.

I use 2400 in the .38 Special now only in heavy loads using heavy bullets. I have a loading for a 195-gr RNL and a loading for Skip's 160-gr full WC. I'd never use it again in "regular" level .38 loadings. To answer your question,rustypigeon , I do not think that it's worth bothering to try. Frankly, I think there are many better powders (Unique, Power Pistol, 7625, etc.) for 158-gr .38 Special loads.

 

[Rule3]

On page 3 of the following post, Smith Crazy posted a copy of some reload data using 2400 in the 38 special.
I have not tried this load, ----------------------------->yet?

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/89306-light-load-s-w-642-a-3.html

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I've used it with 158-grainers, and found that it's horrendous with today's published data. Dirty, unburnt powder, gi-normous spreads. Awful.

At pressures that were published until SAAMI suddenly declared steel to have gotten weaker back around '73 or so, it works better.

Agreed. Keith loads at .38/44 and higher are required to make any use of 2400 in a Special case.

 

[Paul5388]

Much of the velocity of a .38/44 is going to be dependent on what it's shot out of. Lyman 45th Edition says 11.0 gr of 2400 with a 158 gr LSWC (358156) will produce 1010 fps out of a 6" M15. A 4" may or may not shoot with less velocity (I have a 4" M66 that shoots as fast as my 6" M28). Regardless, is there something inherently wrong with 1000 fps out of a .38 Special?

While it's true it takes about twice as much 2400 to do what 5.4 gr of Unique will do (1002 fps), it also has to be admitted 2400 will meter much better than Unique. Many times, the metering qualities of a particular powder will determine the choice made.

 

[Milton]

Since Paul has posted the load (11.0 grains of 2400 with 158 lead bullet) I have used the noted load in my 686 to shoot plates with.With a Hornady 158 gr. swaged SWC/11.0 grains of 2400 and a Winchester small pistol primer I get no leading,1.5 to 1.7 inch groups at 25 yards and a fairly clean burn at 1070 FPS.I have not tried these loads in another revolver but in my 5 inch 686 they do fine.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Might as well climb onboard this train!

It is a well known fact that the slower powders produce greater velocities even when fired in shorter barrels. The question you need to ask yourself is really twofold.
#1: What kind of performance am I looking for and;
#2: What powders are available to me to do what I want to do.

Several things to note: While there is nothing inherently wrong with a 158+gr slug moving out of a 38spl firearm @ 1000+fps, not every use of the caliber needs to perform like that. If for convenience sake or powder availability you decide to use 2400 just know this; loads with it that develop >950fps from most 4" barrels is going to be dirty, period. Get them in the 1000fps, and like Erich said, that data is going to be older stuff, and it cleans up right well.

I know that many folks don't use magnum primers with 2400 either, I do. Those sages of old had one thing in mind, make it go bang and as much as possible. (By way of hyperbole!) I have a chronograph, as do many other folks nowadays. I get better performance from 2400, by the numbers anyway, when I use magnum primers. Does it mean anything on paper? Don't know, never tested that. Does it mean anything when hunting? Don't know, never tested that either!

I am guessing here but on the later two things, it probably doesn't matter. To me, when I look at the ES and SD of a round, it matters.

FWIW

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like the others mentioned, loading a .38 Special with 2400 results in a lot of unburnt powder and not so great accuracy. If it were the only powder you had it would have to do but I would suggest sticking with W231/HP-38 for the .38 Special and save the 2400 for your .357 Magnum rounds.

 

[tops]

I used a 4in., 5 screw .38 spec. and 158 gr. cast bullet
10 grs. 2400 avg. 989 fps
5.2 grs Unique avg 894 fps
12 grs. 2400 out of a 6 in. barrel will avg. 1194 fps.
I don't care if 2400 leaves my gun dirty because I'm not going to eat with it. Larry

 

[Erich]

What kind of spreads, deviations and accuracy are you getting - my point (far above) and that of others isn't that it won't work, just that there are much better powders for such use.

 

[rustypigeon]

I actually loaded up some 140gr jhp last night using 2400. They shot very nice! The grouping was good and they had a very consistant velocity. There was less unburned powder in the barrel than I thought.

I loaded up the same bullet using W231 and got acceptable groups, but not as good as the 2400. I'll load up a few more using 2400 and see how they shoot next week.

 

[Milton]

rustypigeon;that is the only way you are going to find out what will work for you! There are lots of opinions out on the net and some have been tested and work but until you see for yourself they are only opinions!

 

[Bucky2]

Posted this on another site awhile back, however, I forgot to mention that I have reduced the size of my reloading die's expander button to ensure a very tight projectile/case fit to enhance powder burn, etc.

Re: 2400 & 38 Special
« Result #19 on Aug 6, 2008, 9:08pm »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WARNING: This post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. The data presented is for informational purposes only and a recommendation for its use is neither expressed nor implied.

For what its worth, I obtained 1150 Fps using 11.3 grains of A2400, 38 Special military cases, standard WW primer out of a M38-44 HD (4"). Additionally, 13.0 of the same powder clocked out at 1250 +/- using 357 Magnum brass out of a M65 (4"). Both using #Lyman #358429, 168 to 171 grains depending on how hard they were cast.

I've been using these loads since the early 70's whenever I get a chance to do some long range pistol shooting at 50 plus yards. BTW, the the 11.3 g load out of the 38-44 HD groups 10 shots in 3.5" at 52 yards off a sand bag (s) rest. Not bad for a guy my age (60+).
This is the most accurate load I have found in over 40 years of hand loading for 38-44 intensity loads. Clean burning and efficient.

Now if I could only find a source for the Keith hollow base version of this projectile!!!!!

 

[pdcampy]

When I began reloading back in the 60's we used 10.0 grains of 2400 in 38 special and 14 grains in the .357 magnum. Both used either 158 Grain lead RN or SWC and were very accurate. Today I still use 2400 in the .357 magnum and 38 special but have cut the loads listed by 10% due to the new 2400 being slightly hotter and still get great accuracy and only a little unburned powder.