2400 load for Mod 19 Questions

[noshow]

Hi to all:
I have 1lb of old "Hercules" 2400 and about 400 158gr Lead SWCs that I am considering using for 357 MAG reloads for my 6" Mod 19-3. I am limited to my Pacific Pistol Powder measure and bushing #19 which throws 12.7gr of 2400. All my reloading manuals are as old as the powder and call for 13.5gr to 15.5gr of the same powder. My questions are:
1) Is this load too lite?
2) Any idea of the velocity attained?
3) Do I need Magnum Primers?
I appreciate all opinions on this recipe! I have a bad case of cabin fever and wanted to occupy some of my time reloading. Thanks in advance!

 

[OFT II]

1. Not too light for use but would be a little lighter than a factory load.

2. SWAG of about 1150 fps.

3. Standard small pistol primers will do just fine.

Try it and let us know how you like it.

 

[noshow]

Thank you

1. Not too light for use but would be a little lighter than a factory load.

2. SWAG of about 1150 fps.

3. Standard small pistol primers will do just fine.

Try it and let us know how you like it.

Thank you so much for that fast reply! All I'm looking to do is create a mild magnum load that is both above +P velocity and will be kind to my fragile Mod 19's forcing cone. Thanks again

 

[Collo Rosso]

I load 13.5gr. of 2400 with a 158gr LSWC. Nice shooting, accurate round with no signs of leading in my 6" 686. 12.7gr should work fine in your M19. 2400 will get dirty if you load it down enough.

 

[rockquarry]

I use 12 grains #2400 as a regular .357 load with a 158 LSWC, standard primers, though magnums will work about as well. Chronographs 1,100 fps from 6" barrel and is accurate.

 

[rwsmith]

Yellow gold

2400 will get dirty if you load it down enough.

It gets a yellow-gold powder all over your gun and hands.

 

[rck281]

I would still use magnum primers because they are typically recommended with 2400. I don't think that is because it is necessarily a heavy load but because the powder is more difficult to ignite uniformly.

 

[nicky4968]

Very close to a .38-44 load. Might burn more cleanly in a. .38 special case. Don't put it in an Aircrew.

 

[Nevada Ed]

The K frame M19 is plenty sturdy for the 158 lead medium fps loads you are starting with.

I started with 11.4 grs of 2400 with a cci500 standard primer and a 158gr LRN in my 6" and the fps over my chrony was at......
1039 fps and at 25 yards grouped at 1.25".

Have yet to try more powder as yet.....

Good loading.

 

[Treeman]

My old notes show 12.8 of Herc 2400 giving 1150 fps in a 4 inch Ruger Security Six. with a 160 grain cast SWC.....and it was noted as a "good load". I've gone to 15 grains in testing but settled on 14 grains as all I want to put through my Mod 19 as "full power" loads....mostly I shoot 38 spl in it.

 

[alwslate]

With lighter charges of 2400 like your 12.7 grs I have found that
consistancy is greatly improved with magnum primers and pressure
should surely still be mild considering that older data went up to
15.5 grs.

 

[David R]

Lyman calls for a magnum small pistol primer. I don't know why you would not use one.

Lyman Manual #47 calls for a starting load of 11.4 /1024 fps
Max load 15.5 /1344 fps.

158 cast round nose.

It could be a good accurate load, who knows? Check for leading.

Enjoy
David

 

[rockquarry]

Your load needs a good roll crimp. Hard to define the degree of a crimp, but a bit of experimentation will be worth the effort. What some define as a "heavy" crimp may distort the bullet to the point of causing inaccuracy. Too light a crimp and the bullet moves under recoil and powder burning is not efficient; i.e., unburned particles.

 

[Biggfoot44]

The classic 2400 loads handed down from Moses were developed with std primers. Full loads of 2400 give lower pressures , and usually better accuracy.

That said , as mentioned a cpl posts above in a magnum case , this is a pretty mild load , and try it both ways with std and mag primers for accuracy and SD .

Also as mentioned above this would be a dandy .38-44 load ( with std primers ) .

 

[AveragEd]

Something that always puzzles me is a poster saying he can only use a certain bushing or other measuring device because it is the only one he has. Why can't he buy more bushings? Why can't he buy a powder measure? Has he checked that bushing's drop weight with the powder he has using a scale or is he going strictly by a chart? Certainly anyone who has the financial ability to own a Smith & Wesson revolver and reload for it is able to make those purchases. Or am I missing something?

It troubles me to read about handloaders "settling" on a given recipe because it is the only one they have the tools or components to load. Granted, this OP probably isn't going to make any unsafe ammunition but that isn't always the case.

Just wonderin' - no offense meant.

Ed

 

[noshow]

Something that always puzzles me is a poster saying he can only use a certain bushing or other measuring device because it is the only one he has. Why can't he buy more bushings? Why can't he buy a powder measure? Has he checked that bushing's drop weight with the powder he has using a scale or is he going strictly by a chart? Certainly anyone who has the financial ability to own a Smith & Wesson revolver and reload for it is able to make those purchases. Or am I missing something?

It troubles me to read about handloaders "settling" on a given recipe because it is the only one they have the tools or components to load. Granted, this OP probably isn't going to make any unsafe ammunition but that isn't always the case.

Just wonderin' - no offense meant.

Ed

You're missing a couple of facts, Ed. I'm 71, bought the gun new 37 years ago, Pacific no longer makes the bushings and I live on Social Security and a part time job. 37 years ago, I WAS able to afford to make the purchases you speak of. Things change............

 

[AveragEd]

Well, I'll be 67 next week and live on Social Security and two part-time jobs, so we have something in common. I meant no offense but on many forums like this, I read about handloaders making do with what they have and not using a scale so often that it makes me worry about who I'm shooting next to at the gun clubs to which I belong. I've never witnessed a rifle or handgun blowing up but I have been around two trap shotguns that were grenaded by careless reloading techniques. It isn't pretty and someone usually gets hurt.

Ed

 

[coldmold]

P M sent. about bushings

 

[forestswin]

Hi to all:
I have 1lb of old "Hercules" 2400 and about 400 158gr Lead SWCs that I am considering using for 357 MAG reloads for my 6" Mod 19-3. I am limited to my Pacific Pistol Powder measure and bushing #19 which throws 12.7gr of 2400. All my reloading manuals are as old as the powder and call for 13.5gr to 15.5gr of the same powder. My questions are:
1) Is this load too lite?
2) Any idea of the velocity attained?
3) Do I need Magnum Primers?
I appreciate all opinions on this recipe! I have a bad case of cabin fever and wanted to occupy some of my time reloading. Thanks in advance!

noshow
I'm not sure of the limits of the K frame, nor how Herco 2400 compares to Alliant 2400, but I've done three different tests (chorograph and targets) with Alliant 2400, using my Model 686, 6 inch.

Almost all with CCI #500 small pistol primers, the few I did with magnum primers were accurate, but the ES and STD were higher than with std SPP - so I'd say from my tests - use SPP
the bullets were 158 gr hardcast truncated cone - very similar to the SWC

at 12.8 gr of 2400, I got the following:
AVG V = 1205 w/1.3" groups
AVG V = 1245 w/1.1" groups
AVG V = 1229 w/1.1" groups

and one test of 12.6 gr
AVG V = 1220 w/1.6" groups

these were shot from a rest at 25 yards.
I don't believe there was any unburnt powder with this load, I did get some with lighter loads

I did 11.5 gr to 14.5 gr. & 10 rounds of each charge three times.

if I had shot all 300 rounds into a single target, pretty much all of them would have fell within the same 2.5" circle - so, in my tests, the powder charge didn't have too much to do with accuracy

good luck on treating your cabin fever and I hope this helps.

here are some links to my tests:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/343459-357-2400-chrono-target-results.html

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/334952-chrono-data-357-2400-cci500-158-gr-cast-w-targets.html

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/329743-chrono-data-target-groups.html

 

[Rule3]

You're missing a couple of facts, Ed. I'm 71, bought the gun new 37 years ago, Pacific no longer makes the bushings and I live on Social Security and a part time job. 37 years ago, I WAS able to afford to make the purchases you speak of. Things change............

Once you settle on a load, if you have a good scale you can make a simple dipper from an old brass case. File down the case mouth until it holds the exact amount you want. Wrap a piece of strong wire. or glue or solder it on. Fill it to over flow scrape off the top,(don't tap and shake) and it,s very constant.

Costs nothing and easy to do. I used to reload on a single stage and had all kinds of custom dippers along with the LEE plastic ones. Put them all in a loading block and dip away!

EDIT: 12.7 gr of 2400 is just fine for your load and NO you do not need to use Mag primers.