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I have a 25-3 with throats measuring .459. Isn't this rather large? Hoping to shoot cast bullets.
25-3
- Thread starter laurelshooter1
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slabsides52
Member
Check out the Notable Threads - 45 ACP - Why oversized throats? thread in this forum. It may make it a little clearer.
Grayfox
US Veteran
The Model 25-3 was the 125th S&W Anniversary Model in .45 Colt. While they look pretty, they are known to have problems. It uses the shorter .45 acp cylinder which can limit overall length. Some heavy bullet .45 Colt loads are too long to fit.
However, they are most noted for having oversized cylinder throats which lead to poor accuracy. There are two ways to fix this.
1. Replace the cylinder with one with correct sized throats.
2. Handload your ammo using larger bullets that fit the throats.
I dearly love the .45 Colt cartridge and the N-frame S&Ws made for it. However, despite several opportunities, I've never owned or wanted a 25-3.
However, they are most noted for having oversized cylinder throats which lead to poor accuracy. There are two ways to fix this.
1. Replace the cylinder with one with correct sized throats.
2. Handload your ammo using larger bullets that fit the throats.
I dearly love the .45 Colt cartridge and the N-frame S&Ws made for it. However, despite several opportunities, I've never owned or wanted a 25-3.
Alstep
Member
Size your cast bullets to the chamber or just a little bigger, so the bullet is a snug fit in the chamber throat. Use a rather soft alloy, I like a 50/50 blend of lead & wheel weights, or 20/1 lead/tin. About 8 to 10 BHN. Lube 50/50 beeswax/Alox. Your oversize chamber may just be a blessing in disguise for cast.
I've yet to shoot factory ammo in any of my revolvers. Cast all my own bullets. It becomes an addiction. And with today's prices and availability of components, it's become a necessity.
Check out these web sites, lots of good cast info there, and very knowledgeable members. Good luck.
astboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?18-Swappin-amp-Sellin
Cast Bullet Association Forum
Glen E. Fryxell, Cast bullets and firearm information and history
I've yet to shoot factory ammo in any of my revolvers. Cast all my own bullets. It becomes an addiction. And with today's prices and availability of components, it's become a necessity.
Check out these web sites, lots of good cast info there, and very knowledgeable members. Good luck.
astboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?18-Swappin-amp-Sellin
Cast Bullet Association Forum
Glen E. Fryxell, Cast bullets and firearm information and history
steelslaver
US Veteran
You could have another cylinder made up for it. N frame 357 cylinders are the correct length except for the recess, which can be machined off or you can have a recesses 45 colt cylinder made up. Or you can get a newer 45 colt cylinder and have the barrel shank trimmed and forcing cone trimmed recut. The face of a newer 45 colt cylinder could also be machined off so it fit. I have 6 S&W that fire 45 colt, only one has a factory cylinder.
Jason Demond
Member
The Model 25-3 was the 125th S&W Anniversary Model in .45 Colt. While they look pretty, they are known to have problems. It uses the shorter .45 acp cylinder which can limit overall length. Some heavy bullet .45 Colt loads are too long to fit.
However, they are most noted for having oversized cylinder throats which lead to poor accuracy. There are two ways to fix this.
1. Replace the cylinder with one with correct sized throats.
2. Handload your ammo using larger bullets that fit the throats.
I dearly love the .45 Colt cartridge and the N-frame S&Ws made for it. However, despite several opportunities, I've never owned or wanted a 25-3.
The only disadvantage the -3s have over any other .45 of the time period, is the shorter cylinder that limited bullet weight.
Literally all the guns S&W made had oversized throats, because that was SAAMI spec at the time. The oversized throats carried on in both .45 ACP revolvers, and .45 Colts. The problem didn't start in the -3s, and didn't end in the -3s.
You mitigate accuracy issues by loading oversized bullets.
You can load a slightly heavier bullet by crimping over the band.
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.459 is HUGE. I suspect you would have a hard time finding bullets that big or for that matter fitting them into a case. I personally never tried any that big so I could be wrong, but I would not care to bet on it. Hopefully somebody with better info will dive in.
Steelslaver is dead on with his recommendation. I did this with a Model 25-2 that I have. I provided Andy Horvath with a .44 Magnum cylinder and got back a very accurate 25-2 in .45 Colt. The bluing even matched. Money well spent in my opinion.
The biggest exit bores I have ever seen on any S&W .45 (a 25-5 4-inch gun) were 0.4555” to 0.4570”. That poor old gun was all over the place. I sold it to a famous revolver gunsmith, most here would probably recognize his name. He didn’t believe me until he received the gun and checked it out himself.
I suppose 0.459” could happen but, dang!
How did you measure? As Robertrwalsh said, if you put bullets in that thing big enough to keep it from leading up the exit bores you probably won’t be able to get the cartridges in the chambers. If you can find some of the old soft lead Remington hollow-base .45 Colt bullets it will probably sort-of shoot those, but I wouldn’t bet on hitting a pie pan at 25-yards with that thing using 0.454” (or smaller) .45 cast bullets if those bores really do measure 0.459”.
That is a world’s record atrocity in the saga of S&W .45 cylinders!
steelslaver
US Veteran
Ya, if you checked it with calibers you may be off by a bit. If you don't have pin gauges which are best, disassemble the cylinder, sit it on a hardwood block and tap a soft lead ball into the throat and then measure that.
If I only had one 45 colt and it had over sized throats I would simply load bullets that fit it.
My solution of using 44 mag cylinders gives me the option of having recessed chambers if that spins your wheels and 44 mag cylinders are way more plentiful, I get the throat I want Plus, if you believe a 44 cylinder has some magic heat treatment the 45 doesn't there is that. I for one believe both are metallurgical identical BTW Also, installing a longer cylinder allows any length load and an opportunity to have the barrel cylinder gap just what you want as well as a nice 11° forcing cone.
45 colt is a great round, especially if you step up the loads to 45acp pressures. The modern S&W 45 colt cylinders and modern brass will take any pressure a 45 acp cylinder will. The 14,000 psi limit is a relic of balloon head cases and early colt single actions. While I would not go to Ruger only loads I do go to the 20,000psi territory all the time.
If I only had one 45 colt and it had over sized throats I would simply load bullets that fit it.
My solution of using 44 mag cylinders gives me the option of having recessed chambers if that spins your wheels and 44 mag cylinders are way more plentiful, I get the throat I want Plus, if you believe a 44 cylinder has some magic heat treatment the 45 doesn't there is that. I for one believe both are metallurgical identical BTW Also, installing a longer cylinder allows any length load and an opportunity to have the barrel cylinder gap just what you want as well as a nice 11° forcing cone.
45 colt is a great round, especially if you step up the loads to 45acp pressures. The modern S&W 45 colt cylinders and modern brass will take any pressure a 45 acp cylinder will. The 14,000 psi limit is a relic of balloon head cases and early colt single actions. While I would not go to Ruger only loads I do go to the 20,000psi territory all the time.
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