25-5 throats and how to check them before buying one

[GLL]

Thanks to Gun 4 Fun for posting this thread !

arjay's post was kind of ignored but I feel it was significant. For me pin gauges are the best way to measure cylinder throats !

I have a dozen 25-5s and a couple 25-9s. All but two of the 25-5s have oversized throats.
My solution has been to cast a wide variety of relatively soft or hollowbased bullets to fit each specific gun. The diameters are from molds that drop in the 0.454"-0.457" range. Loads have been worked up for each as well.
Off-the-shelf ammo and bullets are not well liked by most of the early 25-5s and they do require experimentation!

Jerry

 

[jaymoore]

My first 25-5 had a non-pinned barrel and had the three alpha prefix, but it still had 0.458" throats. Found scads of Winchester 0.456" bullets at the time (early '80s), so accuracy wasn't a problem once the situation was recognized.

BTW, every M1917, 1955 and 25-2 I've ever owned had/has throats running 0.457-0.458". Would love to know the logic behind that manufacturing decision!

BTW2: Given the gross disparity in throat sizes, potential buyers can probably use a set of calipers to check size before buying. Reading might be 0.001-0.002" off, depending on the jaws, but it ought to be good enough for basic detection.

Having been playing with these for a while, it isn't a factor anywhere nearly as important as passing the usual pre-purchase mechanical checks. Including crazy stuff like off square cylinder faces (bad enough to "crash" the barrel in one case) and offset forcing cones! And that's on the old "good" ones...

 

[Zuchus]

Does anyone have some numbers on the expected degradation in accuracy one would experience with the over sized throats? If you'd get one inch groups with proper throat size what group size would you get with a gun with oversized throats?

 

[arjay]

I can tell you my particular gun (a colt) will shoot 5- 8" groups @ 25 yards with 452s off hand and 2-3" groups with 454s..

 

[Gunhacker]

An interesting post!

Before the S&WCA forum was moved over here, the topic was discussed many times in the S&WCA Yahoo group forum.

According to Roy Jinks, .458 was oversized and .454-.455 is what they should have been.

That makes me wonder whether or not the few N serial number guns that shoot good, really don't have "correct" throats, but made (luckily) with undersized throats by some slip up, or were just the tail end of N serial numbered guns... "transitional" guns that got the benefits of the new cylinders going on the ABC 1234 guns.

I bought a 25-5 in 2000 that has an S/N in the N8xxxxx range that the SCSW puts in the 1980-1983 timeframe. It always shoots great, now I have to go dig it out of the safe and do the check from Gun 4 Fun to see what the throats are.

 

[spad124]

Got ya covered there too.

Call S&W and order the .106" rear sight blade. I actually filed my own down and touched it up with cold blue (that has lasted very well so far) before I ever thought about calling them, but once I did call, they sent me the new blade and the attaching screw and new nut.

Turned out I had my filed my original blade to the same height, so I still have my white outline blade. It is bottomed out still, but at least it hits to point of aim at 25 yards with any load I have tried in the years since.

Thank you Gun4fun! This problem has plagued my 25-5 6" since I bought it in 1989. I enjoy shooting it and it is accurate, but to compensate for the M29 front sight I use a very low 6 o'clock hold. I thought about changing the rear sight, but didn't know what size to get. Many thanks!

Tim

 

[LTC]

I just checked my 25-2 N61XXXX and the throats are about .4585".

I also checked my 25-5 4" A78XXXX and the throats are right on at about .452" to .4525".

My 25-5 6" N82XXXX throats are at .458"

I will have to try some oversized lead to see if it helps me.

LTC

 

[WaMike]

So glad this forum didn't exist back in the day when I bought my 25-5. It had the 8.75" barrel....I'm a short guy, and figured I could use it as a crutch in a pinch.

Anyway, I cast my own bullets (NEI & RCBS molds) and it was one of the most accurate handguns I've ever owned. Guy I sold it to said the same, and its third owner, who still has it, says the same.

Think how much mental stress we've all avoided by not knowing about all its faults!

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

So glad this forum didn't exist back in the day when I bought my 25-5. It had the 8.75" barrel....I'm a short guy, and figured I could use it as a crutch in a pinch.

Anyway, I cast my own bullets (NEI & RCBS molds) and it was one of the most accurate handguns I've ever owned. Guy I sold it to said the same, and its third owner, who still has it, says the same.

Think how much mental stress we've all avoided by not knowing about all its faults!

Not every single pre ABC 1234 gun had over-sized throats, but most did. There was no rhyme or reason to it either. Sounds like you just got lucky.

 

[USSR]

IMHO, much too much is made of the S&W 25-5 and the oversized throats. You simply cast your own bullets, size them to .455" and all is well.

Don

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

IMHO, much too much is made of the S&W 25-5 and the oversized throats. You simply cast your own bullets, size them to .455" and all is well.

Don

No, not at all.

There are far more guys who don't handload than there are those who do. There are even more that don't cast their own. So in your opinion, no one should let them know what to look for, or how to check the throats?

 

[DR505]

You simply cast your own bullets, size them to .455" and all is well.

Some don't even reload, and to simply toss off this simple statement is simply simpleminded.

Edit to add: Gun4Fun is faster at the keyboard!

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Some don't even reload, and to simply toss off this simple statement is simply simpleminded.

Edit to add: Gun4Fun is faster at the keyboard!

I guess that's a lot better than being accused of being too slow.

 

[M29since14]

Jerry

Jerry, who makes this great looking mold? Presume it is hollow-base... weight? Looks like it would be ideal in the S&W .45s.

 

[USSR]

Some don't even reload, and to simply toss off this simple statement is simply simpleminded.

Edit to add: Gun4Fun is faster at the keyboard!

That's choice. I handcraft my own ammo to fit whatever the situation calls for, and I'm "simpleminded"? So, what do you call the guys that don't even have enough common sense to fend for themselves, genius? Sorry, but I'm not into making excuses for those who are lazy or incompetent.

Don

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

That's choice. I handcraft my own ammo to fit whatever the situation calls for, and I'm "simpleminded"? So, what do you call the guys that don't even have enough common sense to fend for themselves, genius? Sorry, but I'm not into making excuses for those who are lazy or incompetent.

Don

That's both arrogant and ignorant to say with all due respect. Many here never grew up around someone who shot firearms, handloaded, or cast their own bullets, and have never had a chance to learn either hobby. Many others live in places that make it all but impossible to to do either ie; apartments, condos etc.

There's nothing lazy or incompetent about them, and for you to imply it is ridiculous, and it's even outright rude to say they don't have common sense because they don't, or can't do things the way you do.

 

[DR505]

That's choice. I handcraft my own ammo to fit whatever the situation calls for, and I'm "simpleminded"? So, what do you call the guys that don't even have enough common sense to fend for themselves, genius? Sorry, but I'm not into making excuses for those who are lazy or incompetent.

Don

Genius? Thanks for the compliment! I'm so bright my parents call me sun!

 

[USSR]

That's both arrogant and ignorant to say with all due respect. Many here never grew up around someone who shot firearms, handloaded, or cast their own bullets, and have never had a chance to learn either hobby. Many others live in places that make it all but impossible to to do either ie; apartments, condos etc.

There's nothing lazy or incompetent about them, and for you to imply it is ridiculous, and it's even outright rude to say they don't have common sense because they don't, or can't do things the way you do.

Oh, boo hoo, now you've hurt my feelings. Doesn't take much for some guys to get their panties all bunched up. Sorry, but I call them as I see them, and I don't make excuses like you do for guys who live in the wrong places or hang out with the wrong people. Oh, and I never grew up around people "who shot firearms, handloaded, or cast their own bullets", but I did something that you just may want to consider: I took the initiative to teach myself how to do it.

Don

 

[03Fatboy]

That's both arrogant and ignorant to say with all due respect. Many here never grew up around someone who shot firearms, handloaded, or cast their own bullets, and have never had a chance to learn either hobby. Many others live in places that make it all but impossible to to do either ie; apartments, condos etc.

There's nothing lazy or incompetent about them, and for you to imply it is ridiculous, and it's even outright rude to say they don't have common sense because they don't, or can't do things the way you do.

Thank you Gun 4 Fun. Some people really live with there head up................

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Oh, boo hoo, now you've hurt my feelings. Doesn't take much for some guys to get their panties all bunched up. Sorry, but I call them as I see them, and I don't make excuses like you do for guys who live in the wrong places or hang out with the wrong people. Oh, and I never grew up around people "who shot firearms, handloaded, or cast their own bullets", but I did something that you just may want to consider: I took the initiative to teach myself how to do it.

Don

Maybe you wear panties, but I prefer good ol' men's apparel. I can't speak for you, but I have never tried the other. Never will either.


You're not the only one here who taught themselves.

Still, it doesn't give you or anyone else the right to be rude or condescending to those less fortunate enough to live where they can't do what they want, when they want. I can, but not everyone here has that option at this stage of their life. You call things as you see them and so do I.

I can guarantee you one thing- You didn't come out of the womb the "expert" you are now. You started off a tenderfoot just like everyone else here who hasn't learned how to do everything just yet.

I started this thread so that folks could learn about the M-25's and what to look for, and/or what to avoid. If you don't have anything positive or useful/helpful to say, then don't post in this one. You certainly haven't posted anything that would benefit anyone yet.