27-9 Classic flame cutting, etc.

[RickB]

I've seen some videos showing discoloration to the exterior of the cylinder, between the flutes, apparently caused by gases "swirling around" the hole in the top strap for the screw that retains the rear sight.
Older Smiths have the screw farther forward, and the hole is not drilled completely through the top strap, so it's not an issue.

My gun is back at the factory for a trigger issue, but my letter describing the top strap/hole/screw asks for a longer screw that fills the hole flush.
Is S&W likely to respond with, "We've installed the longer screw designed to prevent that issue", or something more like, "We don't know what you're talking about"?

Anyone else have the issue and tried to apply a home remedy?
My first thought was filling the screw hole with epoxy, but then I thought about trying to get a replacement screw, cutting a few threads off and making a headless screw to fill the hole.

 

[dogdoc]

I just don’t worry about. Mine are shooters and all the newer smiths in the last 25 years or so do it. A longer screw will help

 

[jem102]

"We don't know what you're talking about"?


This was the answer I received from the factory. So off to the hardware store. Don't remember the pitch off hand but picked up a few longer screws. Spin the correct die onto one, chuck it in the drill press, use a flat file to contour the head, spin the die back off and start trial fitting. Be sure to spin the die back on each time so you have clean threads and no damage to the revolver's threaded hole. With a few try's you can get it flush or just a tad proud of the bottom of the top strap. A little Oxpho-Blue, heat well with a hair dryer, oil and let sit overnight. Next day wipe clean and install the screw...

 

[jeffrefrig]

I had the same issue with my 27-9. I've yet to take the gun to a smith to get the screw out, as I have replacement longer screws to try to address the issue. S&W put color coding paint on the screws so the assemblers would know which screw goes where. The paint acts like thread locker and makes it very hard to remove the screws. I don't have the tools/ability to get the screws out; that one in particular. I bought the proper set of screwdrivers for the purpose but the screw is so tight it ruined (bent) the screwdriver tip. I stopped there and haven't touched it. I'll let a pro smith tackle the issue when I get to it. Anyhow, a video showed a guy try to use JB Weld to fill in the hole and it blew right out on one shot! Couple weeks' set up time didn't make a difference. I've only shot the gun a few times. The burnt off blueing is permanent, just like a turn ring. After I get it to someone to work on the screw issue, if it keeps happening I'll just suck it up to experience with a new gun. Those are nice-looking guns; it's a shame. Good luck!!

 

[scooter123]

The screw is a #6-48 which is an Extra Fine thread pitch that is rarely stocked at your typical hardware store. Brownell's is the most reliable source for these screws. As for removing a screw that has been loctited in place, that is very simple. Put the EMPTY gun in an oven set to Warm and heat it up until it's in the 130-150 degree range. Put on some gloves and then loosen the screw and it will come right out. Note, steel springs have to be heated to a minimum of 380 degrees in order to have any effect on a "Spring Temper" so 150 degrees is perfectly safe.

Personally I've never been bothered by the flutes on the cylinder getting sooted up due to that screw. It takes far more time getting the face of the cylinder clean than a simple pass with a patch soaked with Ballistol that is all the fluting requires.

 

[RickB]

"We don't know what you're talking about"?


This was the answer I received from the factory. So off to the hardware store. Don't remember the pitch off hand but picked up a few longer screws.

My brother worked at Tacoma Screw Products, which seems to sell anything with threads . . . other than gun screws. Brownells or Midway must have screw assortments.

 

[RickB]

Personally I've never been bothered by the flutes on the cylinder getting sooted up due to that screw. It takes far more time getting the face of the cylinder clean than a simple pass with a patch soaked with Ballistol that is all the fluting requires.

Of course, it's not the gun getting dirty that bothers me, it's damage to the bluing (I don't mind wear, but needless damage is another story). A round, bare spot between flutes is not something anyone should see on a $1200 revolver.

 

[RickB]

The gun is back from Springfield, the trigger issue appears to have been fixed; repair trigger, repair frame, repair yoke.

The (potential) issue with the sight leaf screw was not acknowledged or addressed in any way.
So, from S&W's perspective, there is no issue with the bluing being blasted off of the exterior of the cylinder.
Oh, well.

 

[mod57]

Check out your local ACE hardware store. They sell gun screws.

 

[RickB]

I went to my local gunsmithing services provider, and their take was, there's unlikely to be a screw, of the proper thread, that will drop in with only a length trimming. The head diameter and thickness may have to be reduced, there may be a non-threaded shaft section of specific length, etc., so I may be looking at $175 for a screw.

 

[Coverdog]

I went to my local gunsmithing services provider, and their take was, there's unlikely to be a screw, of the proper thread, that will drop in with only a length trimming. The head diameter and thickness may have to be reduced, there may be a non-threaded shaft section of specific length, etc., so I may be looking at $175 for a screw.

Type gunsmithing screws at Amazon. They have large assortment packs that are reasonably priced.

 

[cadmike]

Does anyone have a picture they can share of the damage that is caused by this issue?

 

[greenrunner]

D&L Sports sells rear sights that use all the holes so they also sell extra screws for the holes.

 

[MSD2343]

If you zoom in on this photo of my 27-9, you can see residue on the front of the cylinder that normal cleaning doesn’t remove. In this photo it appears as if there’s bluing wear as well at that spot, but that’s just haze from the residue, the bluing is fully intact.

At the time of this photo, the revolver had about 14k rounds downrange. Today it has 19k and looks the same. I ignore this issue as I do the neglible flame cutting to the top strap.

 

[Coverdog]

Another possibility. Gunsmith Tools | Pachmayr Handgun Grips

 

[RickB]

The screw is a #6-48 which is an Extra Fine thread pitch that is rarely stocked at your typical hardware store. Brownell's is the most reliable source for these screws. As for removing a screw that has been loctited in place, that is very simple. Put the EMPTY gun in an oven set to Warm and heat it up until it's in the 130-150 degree range. Put on some gloves and then loosen the screw and it will come right out. Note, steel springs have to be heated to a minimum of 380 degrees in order to have any effect on a "Spring Temper" so 150 degrees is perfectly safe.

Personally I've never been bothered by the flutes on the cylinder getting sooted up due to that screw. It takes far more time getting the face of the cylinder clean than a simple pass with a patch soaked with Ballistol that is all the fluting requires.

Is the "sight leaf" itself a spring, and when the screw is removed, does the sight want to move or jump out of its recess, or will the elevation screw hold the assembly in place sufficient to replace the leaf screw?

 

[jaymoore]

Is the "sight leaf" itself a spring, and when the screw is removed, does the sight want to move or jump out of its recess, or will the elevation screw hold the assembly in place sufficient to replace the leaf screw?

The forward extension is the spring that elevates the rear blade. If you keep the revolver in a normal firing position or muzzle down, the front screw can be removed and replaced with having the rear screw's/sight retaining nut slide out of it's retaining slot to the rear. Not a big deal even if it does. Done it hundreds of times.

 

[colt_saa]

Anyone else have the issue and tried to apply a home remedy?
My first thought was filling the screw hole with epoxy, but then I thought about trying to get a replacement screw, cutting a few threads off and making a headless screw to fill the hole.

This is not actually flame cutting as no metal is removed. This is carbon scorching. This is strictly a cosmetic issue and has nothing to do with functionality or safety

You will not find a screw length that will perfectly fit each of the holes on the drilled in half frames. The only way to really make this work so there's no marks on the outer edge of the cylinder is to buy longer screws and hand filed them till they're flush with the top strap

When the drilled and tapped frames came out in the early 1990s I too was concerned about this issue and had a few discussions with folks at Smith and Wesson

I have come to the decision that cleaning that little carbon scorching off of the cylinder after every shooting session is simply not worth anything it will gain back to me so I leave them scorched

Does anyone have a picture they can share of the damage that is caused by this issue?

 

[jaymoore]

The easy solution is to buy one NOT to shoot. Ogle the one and use the other. Or just be either a collector or a shooter. It's just money.

 

[steelslaver]

You can get that a 6-48 screw from an Ace Hardware that has the gun screw selection. Our local Big R farm and ranch store also has the same ones. Most of the screws are on the long side. But, if you remove your cylinder, install the screw, turn the gun over, then take a piece of duct tape with a small hole it and place hole over the screw you can file away without damaging the finish until it is very close then finish by removing the sight, reinstalling the screw and taking a few a bit more off.

The rear sight is easy to remove, just loosen elevation screw to take most of the tension off, then remove the front screw, slide the sight assembly straight back 3/8" of an inch and it will lift off. Look at the frame over the hammer and you will see a little slot, look at bottom of sight assembly and you will see the square head of the stud that is the elevation screw. To reinstall the square head need to slide in the slot. It can be a little bit of a pain the get it to start right but it will. Also some of them have on side of the head rounded, the rounded side goes toward the front. Come guys completely unscrew the stud, stick it in the slot, then stick the sight over it and turn the elevation screw until it starts then adjust the sight assembly bask and forth a bit until the hole for the front screw hole is lined up and then install it tight.