Fantastic idea! I'll have to do some more research, and if I find anything, I will let you know but that may take some time. Those inscriptions for surely have been done by hand. Grandpa Joe was originally from Scranton PA, then moved to Chicago. Thanks again, and I appreciate your knowledge and time.
2nd Model hand ejector
- Thread starter Mburns78
- Start date
Fantastic idea! I'll have to do some more research, and if I find anything, I will let you know but that may take some time. Those inscriptions for surely have been done by hand. Grandpa Joe was originally from Scranton PA, then moved to Chicago. Thanks again, and I appreciate your knowledge and time.
handejector
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The numbers for the 2nd Model 44 start in the 14,500s.
44-2nd, #14630, shipped Nov 25, 1916-
44-2nd, # 1526X, shipped Nov 20, 1917-
44-2nd, # 1538X, shipped Sept 12, 1917. NOTE this gun is 114 digits higher than the gun above and shipped more than 2 months earlier-
44-2nd, #14630, shipped Nov 25, 1916-
44-2nd, # 1526X, shipped Nov 20, 1917-
44-2nd, # 1538X, shipped Sept 12, 1917. NOTE this gun is 114 digits higher than the gun above and shipped more than 2 months earlier-
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handejector
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What is your source for this data? It does not fit with my observations.
The bold type above- Why make ridiculous speculations that will become internet myths? You really think an apprentice would have a job after punching marks visible on a brand new gun? You really think S&W would then ship a gun with those blems?
Just realized looking at my new to me 3rd Model, it also has those punch marks similar to the 2nd Model in the OP. I checked my January 1927 (only 11 higher in serial than the one pictured) shipped 44 3rd and my Oct 1927 shipped 2nd Model and neither has these punch marks.
44 3rd Model, shipped January 1927
44 3rd Model, shipped January 1927
Do your guns with no punch marks on the butt have them in either of the other two locations I mentioned above?
Didn't see any punch marks on the grip frames. Could possibly have a single punch mark on the lower front right of the cylinder window of both guns.
Curious markings on an otherwise very nice 2nd Model. I think the 2nd model is my favorite, especially when you see a nice one.
Lee,
Thanks for asking.
I observed the punch dots on my guns in the locations below in the quote from my post, so some time ago now, I had a conversation about them with Roy. He confirmed their use, added the time periods, and the additional detail in the 1st quote following:
The bold type above- Why make ridiculous speculations that will become internet myths? You really think an apprentice would have a job after punching marks visible on a brand new gun? You really think S&W would then ship a gun with those blems?
I apologize, it didn't seem that ridiculous to me considering other strange speculations we've found to be true. My statement: "The dots on the butt may be another example." is pretty clearly speculation, and hardly myth building. Yes I'm surprised if S&W would ship guns with seemingly blems on the butt, but that's true of a few things we've seen from the factory.
Interesting though that another period example showed up in the same thread, don't you think?
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dmc8163
Member
Gun Show Purchase .44 Cal. Hand Ejector 2nd Model
I'm not a revolver collector but I couldn't resist bring this handgun home from a local Gun Show. I believe it is a .44 Special Hand Ejector 2nd Model, Serial #15829*, 6.5" inch barrel, presentation grips(?), no ejector shroud and shipped in 1916-1917. I've been told that the "*" on the butt means that the revolver was sent to S&W at some point and "refurbished." It is in very good condition and has a bright bore. One thing I can't explain is the number 8009 is stamped on the yoke. Does this mean a new yoke and cylinder have been replaced? I would greatly appreciate any information that the revolver experts could supply me. I will add photos as soon as I figure out how. Thank you, dmc8163
I'm not a revolver collector but I couldn't resist bring this handgun home from a local Gun Show. I believe it is a .44 Special Hand Ejector 2nd Model, Serial #15829*, 6.5" inch barrel, presentation grips(?), no ejector shroud and shipped in 1916-1917. I've been told that the "*" on the butt means that the revolver was sent to S&W at some point and "refurbished." It is in very good condition and has a bright bore. One thing I can't explain is the number 8009 is stamped on the yoke. Does this mean a new yoke and cylinder have been replaced? I would greatly appreciate any information that the revolver experts could supply me. I will add photos as soon as I figure out how. Thank you, dmc8163
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I think the experts are going to tell you the numbers in the yoke are parts or assembly numbers and do not correspond to serial number(s) at all. So no worries as long as the serial numbers in the "other" locations match.
The star, indeed, means the firearm was returned to S&W sometime along the line for repair or rework. Looks like your HE has been reblued and that may have been the work warranting the star. Only way to tell for certain is a factory letter and/or a copy of the work order from S&W detailing what rework/repair was accomplished. They are a little behind on letters right now and asking for patience in submitting new requests.
It's unlikely those are original grips but someone more knowledgeable here will know for certain. Nice firearm by the way! I don't see many things like that at local gun shows.
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The number stamped in the yoke cut is an assembly number used during manufacture. Take off the grips and look for a date like MM.YY stamped on the left toe of the grip frame. Also, from the appearance of the sideplate, it appears that your gun has been refinished outside the factory. Perhaps later than the trip back to S&W for whatever was done to it then.
Looks like you got a nice shooter.
Yes I agree with Wiregrassguy, it may have been reworked,repaired, or refinished at the factory at some point. But it's been refinished since and not by the factory; wrong glossiness and inferior pre-metal preparation. We need the date to possibly tell more. A photo of the left side of the grip frame with grip removed could be more helpful by showing additional factory stampings.
The grips are not factory nor presentation, just common after market grips.
There is other serial #s, including on the yoke but in the location described below:
SERIAL # LOCATIONS: To confirm all parts are original, one can check for the 6 (or 7 - Triple Lock models only) matching serial # locations for fixed sight pre war Hand Ejectors and all post war Hand Ejectors thru ~1956 and a few as much as 3 years later.
NOTE: Observing serial #s with accuracy or even existence, especially on penciled stocks, requires magnification, bright light, and an attitude that they are there!
1. Grip frame butt (prefixed by a letter(s) following WWII) - or fore strap on I frame Regulation Police models and single shots with grips that cover the butt
2. Barrel - bottom of barrel or in extractor shroud, (Triple locks have tiny #s stamped in front end of the shroud; sideways/vertical if over 3 numerical digits, otherwise horizontal).
3. Yoke - on rear face only visible thru a chamber with a flashlight (except the .32 Model 1896 and no doubt a few others)
4. Extractor star – backside (which is actually the side facing the muzzle).
5. Cylinder - rear face
6. Right stock only - on back, scratched or penciled depending on vintage and stock material, stamped after 1929, (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required.)
7. .44 TL models only: rear side of middle lock cam plate (Triple Lock models only)
Pre war serial #s on the butt read with barrel to the right and are centered, or offset if produced with a lanyard swivel (factory installed swivels are drilled with a jig and always 1/10" forward of center). Post war #s read with barrel to the left and are all offset to the rear.
Also look for a diamond or other stamps following serial # locations, they can tell us more.
Yes I agree with Wiregrassguy, it may have been reworked,repaired, or refinished at the factory at some point. But it's been refinished since and not by the factory; wrong glossiness and inferior pre-metal preparation. We need the date to possibly tell more. A photo of the left side of the grip frame with grip removed could be more helpful by showing additional factory stampings.
The grips are not factory nor presentation, just common after market grips.
There is other serial #s, including on the yoke but in the location described below:
SERIAL # LOCATIONS: To confirm all parts are original, one can check for the 6 (or 7 - Triple Lock models only) matching serial # locations for fixed sight pre war Hand Ejectors and all post war Hand Ejectors thru ~1956 and a few as much as 3 years later.
NOTE: Observing serial #s with accuracy or even existence, especially on penciled stocks, requires magnification, bright light, and an attitude that they are there!
1. Grip frame butt (prefixed by a letter(s) following WWII) - or fore strap on I frame Regulation Police models and single shots with grips that cover the butt
2. Barrel - bottom of barrel or in extractor shroud, (Triple locks have tiny #s stamped in front end of the shroud; sideways/vertical if over 3 numerical digits, otherwise horizontal).
3. Yoke - on rear face only visible thru a chamber with a flashlight (except the .32 Model 1896 and no doubt a few others)
4. Extractor star – backside (which is actually the side facing the muzzle).
5. Cylinder - rear face
6. Right stock only - on back, scratched or penciled depending on vintage and stock material, stamped after 1929, (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required.)
7. .44 TL models only: rear side of middle lock cam plate (Triple Lock models only)
Pre war serial #s on the butt read with barrel to the right and are centered, or offset if produced with a lanyard swivel (factory installed swivels are drilled with a jig and always 1/10" forward of center). Post war #s read with barrel to the left and are all offset to the rear.
Also look for a diamond or other stamps following serial # locations, they can tell us more.
dmc8163
Member
Hand Ejector 2nd Model
Thank you all for the great information. I inspected the revolver and this is what I found. The numbers on the barrel and the cylinder are 15829 which matches the butt serial numbers. Yeah! The number 8009 is found on the yoke and the frame where the yoke attaches. With the grips removed on the left upper frame is "52." The grips appear generic with the number "21" stamped in ink on left grip. I was unable to locate any more numbers. There are stamps in a couple of locations. Once again I have problems with photos. Given the fact that the revolver has been worked on and re-blued what would you estimate its value? Thanks, Dave
Thank you all for the great information. I inspected the revolver and this is what I found. The numbers on the barrel and the cylinder are 15829 which matches the butt serial numbers. Yeah! The number 8009 is found on the yoke and the frame where the yoke attaches. With the grips removed on the left upper frame is "52." The grips appear generic with the number "21" stamped in ink on left grip. I was unable to locate any more numbers. There are stamps in a couple of locations. Once again I have problems with photos. Given the fact that the revolver has been worked on and re-blued what would you estimate its value? Thanks, Dave
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Recheck the description #3 & 4 to find the serial numbers for the extractor star and the yoke. Brush the location where the #is and use a flashlight; they're small!
Then we can help you out with value.
Then we can help you out with value.
The B in a diamond on grip and barrel appear to indicate a factory reblue. The 52 at the top of the grip frame could indicate it was done in 1952 but is unusual because the date is most always at the bottom of the grip and includes the month. However, we know anomalies do exist, and sometimes no date stamp at all.
Nevertheless it was not factory refinished since then.
Nevertheless it was not factory refinished since then.
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