2nd model hand ejectors in .455 and .44 spec

[raycock]

I understand that the British government (and maybe other commonwealth states?) purchased 2nd model hand ejectors in .455 Webley for use in World War I. Does anyone know whether this was merely a private contractual matter with S&W or an official transaction involving the US government?

Also - were 2nd model hand ejectors in .44 Special ever sold to foreign governments for military use, either directly by S&W or through a transaction involving the US government.

Strange questions, I know, but an ATF inspector has returned an import request for a 2nd model HE in .44 Special without action. Apparently some form of re-transfer authorization is required from the Dept of State. Or, perhaps the inspector is mistaken.

I'd be grateful for any responses and also whether anyone else has encountered the same issue.

 

[22hipower]

Welcome to the Forum, perhaps someone can directly address your question although I don't know that anyone will have an absolute answer. I believe S&W sold their products directly to governments and to distributors who exported them.

I'm not aware of 2nd Model 44 Specials ever being sold to foreign military governments for military use. Some might have gone to Canada for the RCMP but I think those were in 45 Colt or 455 Eley/Webley.

Seems a strange question though, why would an ATF inspector care? Many S&Ws from the period have Canadian, British and other stamps. Some are acceptance, some indicate removal from active military service, some are proof stamps. Most of those would be First Models (Triple Locks) and Second Model MKIIs in 455. Again, why would an ATF agent care? I'd guess you have a confused ATF agent trying to comply with some fuzzy rule he/she doesn't understand. Maybe ask for another agent's perspective?

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Mike LaNier]

Just for support, Smith & Wesson received a contract from the Canadian government in 1915 for 14,500 Second Model Hand Ejector revolvers, which included 1105 which were sold commercially at the end of the contract as 'War Surplus'; all guns were chambered in .455 Mark II, and had Canadian proofs. There was also a large British contract (over 50,000) for these revolvers beginning in 1916. The British contract guns will almost always have "Not English Made" and lots of British proof marks, and most will have the 'broad-arrow' decommission stamp. Lots of these have been converted to .45 Colt, or .45 ACP/Auto Rim as well; my experience is the conversions to 45 ACP are less accurate due to the bore (.455) size and bullet (.451) sizes. The US Model of 1917 had a reduced bore size (see Neal and Jinks, pp. 216) to accommodate the .45 ACP round. Neither contract had anything to do with the US Government.

I would suspect that any .44 Special S&W revolvers sent to England before the war would have been private purchases, more than likely by British officers, who were required to buy their own sidearms but were British proofed when imported.