3.8gr vs 4.0gr Win231

[dwpmusic]

Went to the range yesterday and got about 100rds downrange with 4.0gr Win231 w/ 158gr Berry's RN. Took the chronograph and they only averaged 50fps faster than the ones I had been shooting with 3.8gr. Does this sound about right? All the reloading manuals are feeding me such varied data that it's hard to believe what you're going to get until you actually shoot some. Anyway, 4.0gr seems to be accurate and I'm thinking about staying with it. Got another 1K rounds of Berry's due in Friday. Just thought I'd throw this out there for you experts to comment on or not. Hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving. We are all so very blessed.

 

[MichiganScott]

Doesn't surprise me given the lack of exactness of most reloading scales. I think most have tolerances of 0.05-0.1gr. Your loads could actually have been less than a tenth difference.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Most of your jacketed 158gr bullets for the 38 special will start around 700-750fps and go up from there to around 820fps. Some data is as low as 611 fps but I would be leary with a jacket bullet at this low velosity.................
A factory 158 lead out of my snub nose does 648 fps !!

Some like 3.8 grs of 231 as a starting load while some get good accuracy with 4.3 grs.............all light target velositys, just depends on what your gun like. Win data shows 4.7grs at 17,100 psi as a +p loading in one of my older manuals for the lead,Jhp with 4.4grs at 17,200 psi.
Most 4 & 6" barrel shoot the 158's really nice and just a few loads settle which is best...........it took me 6 months with my snub nose to find a tack driver that was under an inch.

Good shooting.

 

[dwpmusic]

I shot some "fair" groups with the 4.0gr out of my 66 4". I've got some more loaded with 4.0gr. I suppose I could experiment with 4.1-4.3 but I seriously don't think that it would improve my groups at the level I shoot at. I only shot at 7yds. yesterday so hopefully on Friday I'll go back to the range and go out to 10yds-15yds and see what I do. Just don't want to get too hot. Want to err on the side of caution. Thanks for your input.

 

[Steve C]

Most of the ammo's capable accuracy comes from the bullet and not the powder charge, good bullet pretty much equals qoo accuracy. That being said the powder charge needs enough powder to develop enough pressure to stabilize its burn. Too little and too much will produce erratic pressures shot to shot. Once the powder is burning efficiently the increase for every 1/10 th grain is usually very minor, about 10 fps per .1 grain with some of the handgun loads I've ran over the chrono.

Now to reach that accuracy potential the shooter needs to do the rest.

I have always got best results using 158gr LSWC bullets with charges in the top of the standard load to +P level or 4.5grs to 4.7grs.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Went to the range yesterday and got about 100rds downrange with 4.0gr Win231 w/ 158gr Berry's RN. Took the chronograph and they only averaged 50fps faster than the ones I had been shooting with 3.8gr. Does this sound about right? All the reloading manuals are feeding me such varied data that it's hard to believe what you're going to get until you actually shoot some. Anyway, 4.0gr seems to be accurate and I'm thinking about staying with it. Got another 1K rounds of Berry's due in Friday. Just thought I'd throw this out there for you experts to comment on or not. Hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving. We are all so very blessed.

There are variables that change from handgun to handgun so telling you if changing the powder charge by 5% will increase the velocity ?? much can't be done but because I use a lot of W231 I can tell you it's right around the right number.

My favorite .38 Special load is 4.0gr W231 under a 158gr LSWC so sticking with your 4.0gr W231 load is a good idea IMO. (plated bullets are similar to lead bullets) I have been shooting the 4.0gr W231 load almost exclusively for a very long time and it's accurate in every 38/357 revolver I shoot it in.

 

[Black_Sheep]

My favorite .38 Special load is 4.0gr W231 under a 158gr LSWC so sticking with your 4.0gr W231 load is a good idea IMO. (plated bullets are similar to lead bullets) I have been shooting the 4.0gr W231 load almost exclusively for a very long time and it's accurate in every 38/357 revolver I shoot it in.

My default .38 Special load is also 4.0 W231 and a 158 grain LSWC. It shoots well in every .38 I have...

 

[dwpmusic]

Just got my 1K 158gr Berry's in yesterday. I'm taking the advice and sticking with 4.0gr Win231. You guys have been at it a lot longer than I have. Thanks to all.

 

[smithwess999]

231 in plated RN 147 grain

I have been reloading with my Dillon 550B for over a year, mostly 9mm and 45. I started to work with a plated 147 grain RN for my S&W 38 spec model 15.
Worked up from 3.5 to 4.0 grains of 231 and seem to do fine at 4.0. The only oddity is that I see flakes of unburnt 231 in the spent casing. I decided to buy a chrono and seem to get around 649 fps. The accuracy is as good as the shooter at 25 yards.
Thanks for starting this thread as plated and even lead data is hard to come by for RN, most state HP or WC. I have three books and use the online Hodgdon website.
FYI...look to come to Mississippi next summer to reunite with crewmembers from the Recon Squadron I flew with back in 1969 over Vietnam, one guy is from Tupelo. We carried S&W model 15 as a sidearm, which is how I came to enjoy this gun.

 

[WR Moore]

The OP didn't mention their actual velocity which would help. A good many years (OK, decades) ago, someone gifted me with 2 boxes of Winchester .45 ACP target ammo which used a 210 gr LSWC bullet at 710 fps. I shot it much worse than my handloads. I pulled 5 bullets and reloaded them with my powder charge and the goup tightened considerably.

Too slow a velocity can allow our poor followthrough to screw up the groups.

 

[dwpmusic]

I have been reloading with my Dillon 550B for over a year, mostly 9mm and 45. I started to work with a plated 147 grain RN for my S&W 38 spec model 15.
Worked up from 3.5 to 4.0 grains of 231 and seem to do fine at 4.0. The only oddity is that I see flakes of unburnt 231 in the spent casing. I decided to buy a chrono and seem to get around 649 fps. The accuracy is as good as the shooter at 25 yards.
Thanks for starting this thread as plated and even lead data is hard to come by for RN, most state HP or WC. I have three books and use the online Hodgdon website.
FYI...look to come to Mississippi next summer to reunite with crewmembers from the Recon Squadron I flew with back in 1969 over Vietnam, one guy is from Tupelo. We carried S&W model 15 as a sidearm, which is how I came to enjoy this gun.

After shooting a good many strings with the 158gr Berry's bullet I wound up averaging 654fps and 704fps respectively with 3.2gr and 4.0gr of Win231. Interesting about your reunion with your flight buddies. Hope it turns our well.

 

[Az Rick]

I shoot 4grns. 231 or HP-38 in my .38s'. I have several and they all love it. I also want just a little "punch" so you know you touched one off.

Berrys' bullets are plated, just a thin coat of copper over the lead. I treat them as if they were lead. I also use that load on my cast bullets and get the same results.

It's a good target load.

Best, Rick

 

[dwpmusic]

Headed to the reloading bench right now to load some more 158gr w/ 4.0gr Win 231. Weather here is rainy and too bad to get to the range today. So, the next best thing is to load more ammo. Thanks for the reply, Rick.

 

[Rule3]

How are you measuring or weighing that .2 grain difference in weight??? Do you hand weigh every charge on what scale? Are they all the same brass headstamp?
I believe there to be more variance in the Berrys or most any bullet then that little bit of powder.

 

[dwpmusic]

How are you measuring or weighing that .2 grain difference in weight??? Do you hand weigh every charge on what scale? Are they all the same brass headstamp?
I believe there to be more variance in the Berrys or most any bullet then that little bit of powder.

I'm using Dillon's digital scale. I don't hand weigh every charge but I do periodicaly check every say 25 rounds or so to see what it's throwing. Yes, all the brass I'm using has the same headstamp. Not quite following you on the .2 grain difference you're talking about. If you're talking about the actual weight of the Berry's 158gr bullet I have found the ones I've weighed by themselves to vary no more than .2gr, most .1gr in weight.

 

[Rule3]

I'm using Dillon's digital scale. I don't hand weigh every charge but I do periodicaly check every say 25 rounds or so to see what it's throwing. Yes, all the brass I'm using has the same headstamp. Not quite following you on the .2 grain difference you're talking about. If you're talking about the actual weight of the Berry's 158gr bullet I have found the ones I've weighed by themselves to vary no more than .2gr, most .1gr in weight.

You were talking about the difference between 3.8 and 4.0 grs of Win 231. I was merely suggesting that you will get more or the same variance in the weight of the bullets and in each powder drop or throw, So there are other variables at work and the .2 grains is not going to matter a whole lot in a hand gun load. There is also a variable in the chronograph readings, how many did you record and what are the other stats like High, Low ES and SD? All these things will effect your FPS.

A bench rest rifle shooter it would be the end of the world.

 

[dwpmusic]

I catch what you mean now. I'm sure there are other variables at work.

 

[RussellD]

4.0 grains works well for me. If loading Berry's bullets make sure you dont over crimp them. That's where a Lee taper crimp die is your friend.

 

[daniel lawecki]

I have loaded many rounds and fine each gun is different. Some of sweat loads same bullets same powder shoot different in both guns. My groups at 50 yards in my smith vs my ruger is night and day find your own sweat spot for your gun.