I bought a bunch of stuff back in Sept from an estate where the reloader died from smoke inhalation in a house fire. I am still going through all the stuff. I have found more than 300 30-30s loaded with(I think) 125 gr 30 cal hollowpoints..flat nose style. Even found a box or two Speer 125 gr hp bullets I shot a few out of the Win 54 I have. They shot ok in the old gun. In all the batch the fellow had loaded some 150 gr Rem Bronze points. Loading data on them looked ok..So tried em in the 54 and the 788. I even tried one or two in the Winchester 64 lever gun. They shot great. Probably not enough velocity to expand reliably in game. I must say..,in the Winchester and the 788 you can push the envelope, reloading a bit warmer. Have an old Savage 325?/340 30-30 and would not push the envelope with that one locking lug gun, though it is an accurate shooter. Since I have many other rifles for shooting deer I still think the 30-30(and 32 Special) is a short range proposition and am happy with my cast bullet loads for the under 75 yd shots
30 30 question
- Thread starter Digby49
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DWalt
Member
The Savage 99 is superior in every way to the Winchester 94. The very first Savage 1899s were chambered for the .303 Savage cartridge. While not dimensionally identical to the .30-30, ballistics are very close. The .303 Savage was usually loaded with 190 grain bullets. The .303 Savage had a good reputation for penetration in larger game. Later, the Savage 99 was chambered in .30-30. Ammunition is obsolete, but the case can be easily formed from .30-30 brass, except the .30-30 has a slightly smaller base diameter. Both use the standard .308 bullet diameter. I wrap a thin masking tape band around the base ahead of the rim to act as a case centralizer for the first firing.
Excluding a SMLE I have not owned a Savage .303 yet. My cousin inherited one. His family used it to harvest venison for decades. While his father was still young he carved a woman in the side of its butt stock. She was, umm, attired the way single men dream of women being, ah, dressed. Later he shortened the stock for my aunt. While sitting waiting for a deer to walk past some wives would have whittled off the competition but the art survived.
In my wanders I did buy an odd ball item for use in .303 Savages, an adapter to shoot .32 S&W. I'd forgotten about it. Similar adapters for a variety of rifle cartridges used to be fairly common in gun show junk boxes.
Tubular magazines have another seldom mentioned draw back. As they are emptied the weight hung from the barrel is reduced. That has to change the way the barrel vibrates as bullets pass through it. Under barrel tube magazines were not designed for best accuracy. They were designed to increase the rate of fire on battle fields.
My favorite tube magazine .30-30 is the Savage Model 170 pump action. With their short magazine tube they group better than tube magazine lever actions. They were also easy on the budget.
In my wanders I did buy an odd ball item for use in .303 Savages, an adapter to shoot .32 S&W. I'd forgotten about it. Similar adapters for a variety of rifle cartridges used to be fairly common in gun show junk boxes.
Tubular magazines have another seldom mentioned draw back. As they are emptied the weight hung from the barrel is reduced. That has to change the way the barrel vibrates as bullets pass through it. Under barrel tube magazines were not designed for best accuracy. They were designed to increase the rate of fire on battle fields.
My favorite tube magazine .30-30 is the Savage Model 170 pump action. With their short magazine tube they group better than tube magazine lever actions. They were also easy on the budget.
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I use a old Ideal mold for 32/20, 115 FP sized to .312" poured from WWs
shooting at approx 1250fps. Plinking and squirrel load. Fooling around
with spitzers in lever guns besides the issue of bullet points resting on
primers. Before you put one in magazine make sure that OAL of cartridge
will not be to long to cycle. You could end up with a jam that is a PIA to
clear, especially in Marlins. I have done some outstanding 30/30 shooting
with the Speer 130 HP in Marlin 336. The bullet works fine in 94Ws but I
wouldn't trust 94 Win with loads I am shooting in Marlin. They are up
around 2800 fps and get unbelievable groups for a lever 30/30 at 100yds.
I've also loaded the 308 1/2 jacket Plinkers with good accuracy in 1600fps
range. My Varmit load was a Speer 110g Varmiter, a Fn Hp made for 30/30
The Sierra 110 FMJ for 30 carbine is anther good accurate bullet for plinking and small game. Most of my 30/30 tinkering was done with bullets
lighter than 150g. I have tried up to 180s but there isn't much point in
those. Fore store bought on deer sized game it's hard to beat Rem 150 g
cor-loc.
shooting at approx 1250fps. Plinking and squirrel load. Fooling around
with spitzers in lever guns besides the issue of bullet points resting on
primers. Before you put one in magazine make sure that OAL of cartridge
will not be to long to cycle. You could end up with a jam that is a PIA to
clear, especially in Marlins. I have done some outstanding 30/30 shooting
with the Speer 130 HP in Marlin 336. The bullet works fine in 94Ws but I
wouldn't trust 94 Win with loads I am shooting in Marlin. They are up
around 2800 fps and get unbelievable groups for a lever 30/30 at 100yds.
I've also loaded the 308 1/2 jacket Plinkers with good accuracy in 1600fps
range. My Varmit load was a Speer 110g Varmiter, a Fn Hp made for 30/30
The Sierra 110 FMJ for 30 carbine is anther good accurate bullet for plinking and small game. Most of my 30/30 tinkering was done with bullets
lighter than 150g. I have tried up to 180s but there isn't much point in
those. Fore store bought on deer sized game it's hard to beat Rem 150 g
cor-loc.
DWalt that is a very good idea on that masking tape. Fellow down the road just offered me a 99 in 303 Sav..for a pretty fair price I guess. (about 400 bucks). I have, so far, been resisting. I do have an old box of 190 gr Winchester bullets down on the shelf....and don't know why!
trapper9260
Member
Thank you for posting this.I always went by the barrel slug and did not find a easy way for the bore. Also in my 30cals.I mainly size my cast to .310 and get a better group. Also i make my own boolit lube that works for all the cast boolits . I am also glad some one brought up not use pointed bullets because of the tube feed. I use mainly flat nose. The Dia of your boolit matters for cast for more then one reason.One is groups and also leading due to too small of a boolit.Jacket is different.
Tex1001
Member
I got a 303 Savage take down for a bargain basement price. I started all of the drama of forming cases, but quickly found PPU cases and Lee makes 303 Savage dies, so I'm set up.
Prvi Partizan Reloading Brass 303 Savage Bag of 100 - MPN: PPU303S
Note: Lee's 308 Win Factory Crimp Die is the perfect size for 303 Savage.
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I don't have Alzheimer's- My wife had me tested.
DWalt
Member
Yes, I have a Lee .303 die set. I have formed several hundred .303 Savage cases from .30-30, it's very easy to do, just a single pass through the FL die. And no drama involved The case doesn't even need trimming. I slice up masking tape into strips about 1/4" wide and 3" long to wrap round the base for the first firing. That allows the case to expand uniformly in the chamber. And the tape can then be peeled off and re-used if you wish. I have found one new box of Remington .303 Savage and a box of .303 Savage reloads in original .303 Savage cases, so I am pretty well fixed. My Model 99 is the takedown style and has a Marble tang peep sight.
.303 Savage cases can also be formed from .220 Swift brass, and there is a lot of drama to that. I don't recommend that method.
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This was not well thought through.
I'll use U.S. G.I. .30-06s to illustrate. The American ideal is for groove diameter to equal bullet diameter. Springfield 1903 and 1903A3 groove diameters of were specified .308" minus zero, plus .002". Their groves were 3 times as wide as their lands. In contrast, U.S. 1917 "Enfield" rifling continued use of British rifling ideas carried forward from British Pattern 1914 .303s. As a war time expedient U.S. 1917s were Pattern 1914s with .30-06 barrels and bolt faces. Their grooves made up 50% of the bore. British thinking was that since lands displace metal it was preferable for groove diameter to be 2 or 3 thousandths larger than bullet diameter. Consequently, U.S. 1917 barrel design specifications were a few thousandths larger than Springfield barrels. Manufactured within their tolerances U.S. .30-06 barrel groove diameters vary .004" to .005". However, Springfield and Enfield chamber specifications were the same.
The specifications for early 20th Century U.S. barrels are in Hatcher's Notebook which I no longer have a copy of.
In addition to tolerances in chamber specifications variations in case neck thickness and brass spring back affect internal diameter of once fired brass. To help plan which bullet molds and lubricator/sizer dies to experiment with most reloaders measure their groove diameter in thousandths of an inch. For our purposes measuring the inside of a fired case neck will not substitute for an accurate measurement.
I'll use U.S. G.I. .30-06s to illustrate. The American ideal is for groove diameter to equal bullet diameter. Springfield 1903 and 1903A3 groove diameters of were specified .308" minus zero, plus .002". Their groves were 3 times as wide as their lands. In contrast, U.S. 1917 "Enfield" rifling continued use of British rifling ideas carried forward from British Pattern 1914 .303s. As a war time expedient U.S. 1917s were Pattern 1914s with .30-06 barrels and bolt faces. Their grooves made up 50% of the bore. British thinking was that since lands displace metal it was preferable for groove diameter to be 2 or 3 thousandths larger than bullet diameter. Consequently, U.S. 1917 barrel design specifications were a few thousandths larger than Springfield barrels. Manufactured within their tolerances U.S. .30-06 barrel groove diameters vary .004" to .005". However, Springfield and Enfield chamber specifications were the same.
The specifications for early 20th Century U.S. barrels are in Hatcher's Notebook which I no longer have a copy of.
In addition to tolerances in chamber specifications variations in case neck thickness and brass spring back affect internal diameter of once fired brass. To help plan which bullet molds and lubricator/sizer dies to experiment with most reloaders measure their groove diameter in thousandths of an inch. For our purposes measuring the inside of a fired case neck will not substitute for an accurate measurement.
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one eye joe
US Veteran
WOW---THAT'S A GREAT TIP, 22shtur ! ! ! THANKS FOR PASSING IT ON. I NEVER READ THAT ANYWHERE, BEFORE THIS.......
jag312
Member
I saw the remains of a modern Henry 1860 rifle in .45 Colt. Someone loaded .45 Colt cartridges using the 230 grain copper jacketed round nose bullets for a .45 Auto. There was a chain explosion with severe damage to the magazine tube.
