317 vs 63

[Snowwolfe]

I am about to give up. In my search for a smallish .22 DA I bought two 317's (3inch) this past year. As expected, both were light and had great triggers but frankly their accuracy was less than desired. I consider myself a pretty good handgun shot, especially off the bench. Trying about 7 different types of ammo I could not find a combination that would beat 2.5 inches for 8 shots at about 15 yards off the bench. Most groups were 3 - 3.5 inches. At the same time I would shoot my Beretta Bobcat and groups would be at 2 inches or under from the same range. I am starting to think the 317 is just to light to shoot well unless in a mechanical rest. But the Bobcat weighs even less so just not sure of myself.

Thinking about trying a 63. Anyone own both and can offer their opinion? Not sure what barrel length they come in as S&W's web site seems to be down tonight. How about the older 4 inch models?

 

[Avery11]

I think you're asking too much

of the gun. 3.5 inches at 15 yards is more than "combat effective". Remember that the 317 is basically a trainer, not a target pistol like the model 41 and even 22a.

If you are shooting bulk rimfire ammo from a gun with a short barrel and short sight radius and you're getting those groups, you're doing just fine.

If you carry a j-frame snub, keep the 317 and practice more. If it's for cheap plinking, ditch it and find anything with a longer tube. The 63 is a good little field gun - lightweight and stainless.

For target practice with a revolver find a good used model 17 or even 617 with a 6" barrel, and use quality sub-sonic ammo.

I think your 317 knows its role but, respectfully, you do not.

Good luck and please take no offense, as none is meant.

Regards,

A.

 

[mbliss57]

Have you tried the 2213/14 in semi auto? I find mine to be highly accurate at 10 yards. I havent tried beyond that distance. It is also very reliable and seems to not care what ammo it shoots. The fixed barrel below the slide seems to be a great innovation for accuracy.

 

[Snowwolfe]

Guess I should of explained what I use the revolver for. When hunting I like to carry a small revolver that is capable of hitting grouse or hare at likely a maximum distance of maybe 30 yards but most shots would be around 20 yards. Stainless is a huge plus as well.
I already own a 617, 6 inch as well as a Ruger Single 10 (4 5/8) and Single 10 (6.5). But reallly like the compactness of a 3-4 inch revolver that weighs at max 30 ounces.

 

[Avery11]

Oh, in that case, a 4" 63 sounds like a good fit for you. Though I don't onw one, I have shot a few and enjoyed accuracy that is on par with most of my other 4" S&W revolvers.

I believe the early examples are climbing rapidly in price. I prefer no dash guns when I have a choice.

 

[MG-70]

I've tried many modern .22LR handguns, and own a few. For your intended purposes, and since you started your post with a search for an auto, I'd recommend a Ruger MKIII Hunter with a 4.5" barrel, and if you don't mind blued and fixed sights, there's the excellent Beretta 87. They're both capable of great accuracy, are flatter than a revolver for easier carry, and faster to clean. The Beretta is much lighter, but blued. I replaced this particular Ruger's fiber optic front sight with their Target sight, and rear V notch blade (just the tiny flat blade, not the whole rear sight) for their U-shaped one.

 

[crofoot629]

I don't shoot any J-frames well. Even 4" guns.
The triggers are just to heavy for such a small gun for me I guess.

That said I love my 43C as a pocket gun and New York reload.

Emory

 

[jack the toad]

I have a 3" 317 (w/o IL) and it is what it is. A very light weight 8 shot
.22 cal. revolver. I seem to shoot the heavier steel guns better.
I didn't buy it for a target/plinking gun. But for carrying when weight, not caliber, is an issue, it fits the bill well.
A spring(s) change does help with trigger pull.

 

[InTheWoods]

I think a Model 63, especially a used one with a four-inch barrel, would be perfect for you. I have one (as well as its blued twin, a 34) and find it to one of the best trail guns available. It will certainly be easier to shoot accurately than the 317. So will the new three-inch 63.

A previous poster complained about J-frame triggers. This is true if they are shot double-action. The single-action pulls are darn near perfect, and I can't see any reason to use anything but singe-action on a small-game gun.

I also have K-frame .22s, but it is always the 3 or 4 inch target sighted j-frames that go on the trail with me. Putting handfilling grips on the little guns also goes a long way in making them easy to shoot well.

 

[Triggernosis]

Guess I should of explained what I use the revolver for. When hunting I like to carry a small revolver that is capable of hitting grouse or hare at likely a maximum distance of maybe 30 yards but most shots would be around 20 yards...

And that's exactly what a "Kit Gun" like the 317 should be. I, too, couldn't get my 317 to shoot worth a **** and traded it. If you can't hit a rabbit in the head with it at 15 paces, it's pretty much worthless as a field gun in my opinion...

 

[BubbaBlades]

This is my 15 yard target with 7 rounds from my 317 offhand. Forum member Allen-frame was present when I shot this target. It isn't (in most cases) the arrow it's the Indian.

I also have a S&W model 63, 17, 617 and 35. All of them will keep a cylinder's worth of ammo inside of my 1" Shoot'n'see target if I do my part.

Several forum members that I consider good shots have a difficult time keeping a 15 yard 2" group with any of my .22 revolvers. I don't know why.

Mark

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

A 2" J-frame, even steel, does not seem to me to be conducive to shooting well. That is, I can't shoot one well, even though I shoot other pistols well. My favorite kit gun is my Model 43, although I also have a 4" pre-34 that is accurate with ammo that it can extract. Of course if I really want to shoot well, my Colt Challenger will fit in a Bianchi Pistol Pocket IWB holster.

You might consider the Ruger, if that fits your needs. The 63 should also be OK if it was made properly (when I was looking for one, most weren't).

 

[nossew]

I have a 2 inch 317 w/o lock and a 3 inch 63 with lock. The 317 is great to throw in the pocket, I don't shoot it quite as well as the 63. The 63 has a much nicer DA trigger.
I used to have a Bobcat I didn't shoot well at all.

 

[ColbyBruce]

I have both a 63 & a 317

and a 650. My pre-lock 317 is difficult to shoot well off hand due to the light weight. It shoots standard velocity ammo the best. My 63 was a junker due to being thrown from a vehicle. I bought it for the cylinder, but sent it to the factory for a qualified inspection and the service techs fixed it mechanically and cosmetically and shipped it back to me for dirt cheap. Originally it was wearing Pachmayrs, I put the Herrett stocks on it to fill my hand. Off a bench, it shot just as well at 15 yards as my K22 did. Plus it is lighter and made of stainless steel.

The 650 .22 magnum is loud, very particular about what it eats, and catches everyone's eye at any firing range or outing. I would love to have another one.

S&W 2213 & 2214...great little guns.

Another option for you to consider is a S&W 30 or 31 .32 Long revolver. These tend to be very accurate, cheap to shoot (if you reload), and gives you a little more power. I like the three I have.

The Beretta 70/71 series have gotten expensive, but they are slim, light, accurate, reliable. I swapped this one off because it was ugly.

 

[Snowwolfe]

After handling a 8 shot Ruger SP101 22LR think I am going to jump ship from S&W on this quest and go with the Ruger. Seems pretty universal the 317's are dang near impossible to shoot well, at least according to the people I know and trust. I was told this before buying my first one and choose to ignore the advice so live and learn. The Ruger seems very well balanced, weighs in at 30 ounces, and has a 4.2 inch barrel. Time will tell if the choice is a good one.
Cheers.

 

[Triggernosis]

Personally, Snowwolfe, I think you're making an excellent choice with the Ruger. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[CWH44300]

I bought a new 317 kitgun awhile back as a trainer, to get used to that style sight, it is a hard gun to shoot as are all the feather weights, but I kept at it and after a few bricks we started doing well together, 12ga hulls are in big trouble out to 20yds now, give it some time, they are a great little woods gun

 

[Pef]

This is my 15 yard target with 7 rounds from my 317 offhand. Forum member Allen-frame was present when I shot this target. It isn't (in most cases) the arrow it's the Indian.

I also have a S&W model 63, 17, 617 and 35. All of them will keep a cylinder's worth of ammo inside of my 1" Shoot'n'see target if I do my part.

Several forum members that I consider good shots have a difficult time keeping a 15 yard 2" group with any of my .22 revolvers. I don't know why.

Mark

That's very impressive shooting.

To the OP - My SW 63 3" is a very accurate handgun. If I do my part, it can group as well as Ruger MK III target or my 63 4" inch or 34 4".

If I do my part.

 

[Snowwolfe]

Like I said.............tried doing my part and it just didnt work. Could pick up any of my other .22 handguns and hit what I wanted if I did my part but not with either 317. If you can shoot em well thats great, but they were the only handgun of two I've personally had troubles with (other was a Ruger P90).
I'm sure the trigger on the SP101 will need some work but it seems like a very well balanced revolver.
For what it is worth, my Bobcat is capable of the same accuracy some of you guys are reporting with your 317 plus it is lighter.

 

[ColbyBruce]

Another option for you is the discontinued S&W 422/622/2206 series of .22 pistols. I have owned several of these.

 

[nutsforsmiths]

I shot a 3" 317 at the range about 6 months ago and I did not do very well with it. So, what did I do? I purchased a 351PD and it is a fantastic shooter! I don't know why, but it is much more accurate then the 317 I shot.

I also have a 2214 and it too is very accurate. It also fits well in my hand and just a joy to shoot.

 

[Snowwolfe]

Found a Ruger locally for just a hair under $540. Dang thing looks like it built like a tank but it only weighs 30 ounces.
Should be able to hit the range in a week or two and see how she does.

 

[smousefam5]

I owned a pre-lock 4" 63 before the economy forced me to sell it. While a bit more difficult to shoot accurately, it was, for all intents and purposes, every bit as accurate as my 17. I looked at the 317's but I always felt they were just too light to for me to shoot with a consistent level of accuracy.

My 63 is one of the guns I truly miss and regret having to sell.

 

[cochise]

The 317 is NOT a target grade revolver. Don't compare it with the K frame steel guns. It is meant to be carried on hikes in the woods, around town, or fishing on the shore, and the weight is the advantage. For that use it is a good revolver. Shooting it does require more practice than a steel revolver, getting used to the sight picture ( V notch rear with a glowing front sight, on some models).

I like my Model 18 the best for shooting. My model 63 was a good compromise weight vs size. And my 2 model 317's are neat, one a 3" and my "wife's" 2". I spent allot of time shooting the 317"s and if I concentrate it shoots pretty good. That is the draw back, it requires dedication to get used to a SHORT bbl light weight revolver. I learned to keep the range shorter with the 317

 

[Seaburry]

Used my 317 on two big rattlers on the farm. It is light enough that it doesn't interfere with what you are doing. I know some say the rattlers shouldn't be shoot but it goes againt my upbringing. Not a target pistol but very adequate. I have a 63 but I like the extra rounds and light weight of the 317. I really have to move up to a k frame to shoot a lot better with any 22. Wallace

 

[Stainz]

A bit late to the dance, but here is my take on the new 3" 63 vs the newer 4.2" SP101, albeit from a range trip over a year back. A friend had just paid a premium price to own the first of the new Rugers in the area - within a Happy Meal of what my new 3" 63 had cost the year before. So I took my then year old box stock but broken-in 3" 63 and new to me 4" 651 to the range to meet my friend and his new Ruger. Clearly, the 63 was the better of the trio, group-wise. Sheer entertainment went to the 651 for it's 'light & sound' show - it was overcast, which seemed to enhance the effect. Don't get me wrong, the SP101 was head and shoulders above my last example, a 4" SP101 in .32 H&RM, but that didn't take much - it was delivered new as a turkey of the first order. To be fair, the new Ruger had a decent DA trigger as delivered - even if it's SA had some creep - a la the .32 H&RM SP101 I had - even post trigger TLC work. My 3" 63 came with a great DA trigger right out of the box - and it was better than my much TLC-ed 5" 63 - with it's spring changes - go figure! I also like the '60 Pro' style grips - a bargain from S&W Accessories for $43. If I had no knowledge/experience with the 3" 63, however, the 4.2" Ruger SP101 would be a fine choice. Below are my 5" 63 (Predecessor to the 3" current model.), 4" 651 (Looks like the older 4" 63.), and my 3" 63. All sport '60 Pro' grips. The 63s shown have x8 cylinders; the 651 is x6.

I did shoot a 3" 317 several years back, when 'all' I had was a 4" 617 as a rimfire revolver. Totally unfair comparison. The nothing weight, combined with a stiff DA pull, made the 317 somewhat difficult for me to shoot effectively. The small steel bowling pin falling targets at 12yd were relatively safe from my DA shooting that day with the 3" 317 - but the gun's owner hit them regularly in SA. A year or two later, I could hit them easily with my 3" 63 - even selecting the upper part of the handle for reliable dropping - in DA. Sadly, that wonderful 4" 617 gets left home a lot on range trips - the 3" 63 earns frequent rider miles! Below is my 3" 60 Pro in a S&W Accessories (DeSantis) holster with the 3" 63 alongside - it fits the holster perfectly, too.

I think the 3" 63 is small enough to be an easily toted 'woods revolver' for these parts. I'd keep CCI Stingers loaded for effectiveness - but they will sure limit your between cleanings shooting - nasty ammo - I've never been able to shoot a box (50) without cleaning. The WallyWorld, etc, Federal 36gr plated HPs in the 550 bulk pack are fine - and I've shot ~400 rounds between cleanings with no problems other than my vanity. A 'keeper' for sure!

Stainz