.32-20 pistol vs rifle

[Rambler42]

I have a Model 1899 in .32-20 that I really enjoy shooting. I recently got a Winchester 1885 in the same caliber. My Lyman loading manual shows quite a difference between loading .32-20 for pistol (4 grains of Unique), and for the rifle (10.8 grains of IMR 4198). In order to make sure I don't get them mixed up I use different color boxes and use a hard lead bullet for the pistol and a JHP for the rifle.

But it got me to thinking, what would happen if I did get one of the rifle bullets in the pistol? Would it destroy the pistol or, since the powder burns so much slower, would I just get a big flash as unburned powder blows out the end of the 6-inch barrel?

 

[StrawHat]

Not something I would like to experience, again.

I loaded for four levels of 45-70. I had a foolproof system to keep them separate. Then, God sent the new and improved fool who grab my box of atomic 45-70 and my 1878 Trapdoor. I got to him before the trigger squeeze. NEVER AGAIN!

Now, if I have multiple level firearms, they all get the lowest common feeding. It is not worth the risk to me.

Nothing needs that extra 150 fps.

Kevin

 

[Casual Smith Nut]

I have no qualms running my 32-20s on the warm side but I definitely wouldn't run the rifle-only loads through an old K-frame. The cylinder has a fair but of steel since the chambers are smaller than 38, but I don't know how they would hold up to higher pressures for rifle loadings. Maybe someone could weigh in on when S&W started doing heat treatment on the 32-20 K-frames.

 

[rockquarry]

Maximum .32-20 rifle loads are much stouter than loads recommended for handguns, or at least they used to be. I haven't loaded for a .32-20 handgun in some time.To simplify things, I found it best to develop a moderate and accurate load that was suitable and safe for both rifle and revolver. I used a Lyman cast flat nose gas check design that weighed around 115-120 grains, Unique powder and a Remington 7 1/2 primer.

If you prefer to load hotter for a rifle, that's fine, just mark the loads well. I've always enjoyed working with this cartridge, but never really found much of a purpose for it in handgun or rifle. I suppose in a rifle it would make a decent close range (100 yards or less) turkey or varmint cartridge.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

My 32-20 handguns are a 1902 S&W and a 1919 Colt Police Positive Special. My rifle isa 1980's Marlin 1894CL. I use cast in the handgun and lite loads and Jacketed Butt kickers in the rifle (Think 30 Carbine noise and power)

One round probably won't destroy your revolver! But a former owner may have used up all your grace! I sure would avoid the "High Speed" loads (factory's are often 90gr Jacketed).

Depending on how old your 1885 is, I would use only cast bullets in it too!

I have seen cast plane base bullets in the RBFP profile from 90 to 120 grains. These all work fine in 32-20, just watch your overall length and roll crimp medium.

Lyman invented a 115-117 grain RNFP mold for the 32-20 round and numbered it 3115 or 3117 That mold is still made with a 6 digit number. The mold I have is for gas checked bullets so the number is different. I size bullets in .309" for M-1 Carbine and 30-30, .311" for 32-20 & .314 for 32 S&W Long and 32 Colt New Police. I have loaded 30 Mauser with .309" but isn't very accurate. The .311" do pretty well in light 7.62x39 Russian & Chinese SKS's. I have a Forrester Hollow pointing tool in 1/16 & 1/8 inch. The 1/8-inch hole works well at handgun velocity. The 1/16-inch hole for rifle loads, destroys groundhogs very well!

In theory you can load that bullet in any 30 caliber gun, but most rifles are set up for 150 to 220 grain bullets and don't stabilize these small bullets well!

Ivan.

 

[StrawHat]

…Maybe someone could weigh in on when S&W started doing heat treatment on the 32-20 K-frames...

S&W started to heat treat the K frame 32-20 at serial number 81,287 in 1919.

I still would not run hot loads through one.

Kevin

 

[dwh]

I load my warmer rifle loads with jhp and 2400. The revolvers are loaded with either 2400 or 231 and either 120gr gc or 115 plain base bullets. I do shoot jhp's exclusively out of my 1893 high wall. The bore is so rough their the only thing that groups well, everything else keyholes. It is my favorite woods walking cartridge. I'm confident that it will take anything under 100lbs at 150yds or less.

 

[Green Frog]

The most recent S&W 32-20 I've had has a serial number just 5000 under the change over to heat treated cylinders. I now have a couple of modern made full size SAs if I need to shoot 32-20s and if I get unbearable itch for a S&W DA in 32-20 I think I'll send Project 616 back to Andy Horvath for another cylinder.
My favorite bullet for the 32-20 is the good old Ideal 3118/Lyman 311008 that's been around since the cartridge was invented about a century and a half ago. "Ride the horse that brought you!"
The only 32-20 rifle I've ever owned was a high wall, vintage 1886 or '87... I've always just gravitated towards the handguns in this caliber, so I load accordingly.
Froggie

 

[DWalt]

The old HV factory .32-20 rifle loads, now long obsolete, used a light weight jacketed bullet at a higher MV. The problem wasn't blowing up a revolver, but rather splitting the barrel at the forcing cone if such loads were used excessively. At least that is the story. If you use the normal weight lead bullets, you can shoot more enthusiastic handloads in a sound condition revolver without concern. There is plenty of steel around the chambers to withstand very high pressures.

Firing light weight high velocity jacketed bullets in any revolver is not the best idea.

 

[Skeet 028]

I load 32-20 for an old 1905 S&W a Ruger 32 mag 32-20 combo...another S&W made 1926-27 and a T-C Contender. The Contender uses .308-.309 bullets though. Also has a Savage Sporter but while accurate enough factory loads actually sucked so figured I might as well just shoot the handguns...The S sporter isn't the strongest feeling rifle. The only handgun I put serious loads through is the Contender. I shot more'n one deer with it...under a 100 yds.

 

[DWalt]

I lived in Western Maryland many years ago. My barber, an older guy, had a Winchester Model 43 rifle in .32-20. It was his only deer rifle, and he got his deer every year with it. Ranges were fairly short there, maybe 100 yards maximum as the woods were fairly heavy. At that time, any CF rifle caliber was legal for deer hunting in Maryland. I don't know about today.

 

[rockquarry]

My first .32-20, a Winchester 1885 low wall made in 1892, had a noteceably pitted bore, easily seen without the aid of a borescope. Using the Lyman 115-120 grain cast bullet with gas check, I could get groups of around 2" - 2 1/2" at 100 yards using the original aperture tang sight. I believe I sized bullets to either .313" or .314", same as I do in my modern Marlin. Bore sizes may vary in the older guns, but generally the largest diameter cast bullet that will allow chambering without difficulty will be the most accurate. I don't know anything about jacketed bullets and see no point or advantage in using them unless your gun will simply not shoot cast. That's a possibility, but not likely.

On that note, I had a Colt Army Special in exceptional, almost like new condition from the late 1920s, made about the time when they changed the name to Official Police. It was a very poor shooter with any cast load, even after trying different cast bullets and several diameters. I never did try jacketed bullets but perhaps should have.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I looked at Lyman #51 and it seems the rifle data is listed in CUP and the handgun ammo is listed in PSI. You can not compare the 2. For the most part the handgun data seems to be generating a little less pressure but not much. The rifle data is also using much slower powders than the handgun data probably because the longer barrel will allow the slower powders to burn more completely.

You probably won't blow up your handgun if it's in good operating condition but I wouldn't do it often.

The trick I use, use a magic marker and color in the primer for quick identification but it doesn't make you segregate the brass because once the primer is removed it doesn't matter.

 

[Casual Smith Nut]

The old HV factory .32-20 rifle loads, now long obsolete, used a light weight jacketed bullet at a higher MV. The problem wasn't blowing up a revolver, but rather splitting the barrel at the forcing cone if such loads were used excessively. At least that is the story. If you use the normal weight lead bullets, you can shoot more enthusiastic handloads in a sound condition revolver without concern. There is plenty of steel around the chambers to withstand very high pressures.

Firing light weight high velocity jacketed bullets in any revolver is not the best idea.

Yes good point. I agree the forcing cone would probably be my first concern. Best to respect the cartridge for what it is and not turn it into a 327 Fed Mag so that the older firearms don't get too beat up by supercharging.

 

[Green Frog]

Yes good point. I agree the forcing cone would probably be my first concern. Best to respect the cartridge for what it is and not turn it into a 327 Fed Mag so that the older firearms don't get too beat up by supercharging.

Once the 327 FM was developed, a whole new phase of 32 caliber revolver shooting came into being. While the 32-20 is plagued with weak guns vs strong guns and thin necked brass prone to crumpling, all factory made 327s (and any conversions by reputable gun smiths) are as strong as modern handguns in their size range can get, and the straight walled brass is a joy to work with, all of it having been made by modern techniques. I don't want to be accused of thread theft, but I have to say that now we have the 327 a lot of the luster is gone off of the 32-20. jMHO, of course and I'm in the bathtub, so I'm flame proof!

Froggie

 

[BSA1]

O.P.

Why JHP bullets?

The 32-20 is my favorite cartridge. I got a EMF SA with 7 1/2" barrel and a Uberti carbine for CAS and never looked back. The cylinder and back of the barrel on the EMF are so thick I have no concerns about using JHP if I was so inclined but the question is why.

I use a 115 gr. lead bullet sized 312" in both guns. It shoots well out of either gun. I find it easier just to use the same load in both guns. It is a excellent performer on varmints. Before Al Gore invented the Internet and gun 'riters said it wasn't so the 32-20 was considered to be a good deer round. Nowdays the same Internet 'xperts and gun 'riters say that the 55 gr. .223 bullet at 2800 - 3000 fps. is a good deer cartridge. Go figure.

My 7 1/2" barrel EMF SA is bit on the long size for easy packing so earlier this year I brought a Uberti SA with 4 3/4" barrel. I had one once before but didn't fit in with my CAS shooting at the time so I sold it. I like 32's and got the itch for a easy packing pistol and ran across this one when shopping for a double action one. I also like the 32 Magnum but haven't found a double action revolver in either caliber I like so now the SA will have to do until I find one.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I lived in Western Maryland many years ago. My barber, an older guy, had a Winchester Model 43 rifle in .32-20. It was his only deer rifle, and he got his deer every year with it. Ranges were fairly short there, maybe 100 yards maximum as the woods were fairly heavy. At that time, any CF rifle caliber was legal for deer hunting in Maryland. I don't know about today.

Back in the day if my grandfather would have brought a 30-30 to a deer hunt his friends would have laughed at him asking why he needed such a big gun for deer? The younger generation somehow thinks they need a 300 Win Mag for deer hunting. When did deer grow armor plating?

I'm not totally sure which but his deer rifle was either a 25-20 of 25-35 in a lever action rifle. (just after WWI) He fed his family with that rifle his whole life.

 

[moosedog]

In load differences like that I always include a note with all the loading
in the box and on the hot loads I run a red magic marker over the cartridge base making sure to cover the primer for easy identification.

 

[Rambler42]

O.P.

"Why JHP bullets?

The 32-20 is my favorite cartridge. I got a EMF SA with 7 1/2" barrel and a Uberti carbine for CAS and never looked back. The cylinder and back of the barrel on the EMF are so thick I have no concerns about using JHP if I was so inclined but the question is why."

I use a JHP in the rifle cartridges and a hard lead bullet in the pistol cartridges to make a positive way to make sure I don't get the wrong one in the wrong gun.

 

[gwpercle]

You know the easy answer ... and it might be the best .
Work up a good handgun load with a cast / coated bullet and shoot it in the rifle too . The velocity will improve because of longer barrel .
If you want some hunting loads then work those up with JHP bullets and mark the box " Rifle Only" .

If the coated lead bullets are a nice bright color ... they sould be simple to tell from your JHP Hunting - Rifle Only load .

My East Texas Uncle was known to take a deer eating up his garden with his lever 32-20 ... it stood next to the back kitchen door all loaded and ready ... the garden was only a few yards (40) away .

Gary