32-20 Target

[MrOverlay]

I've had this gun for several years and never really paid much attention to it. I guess being pretty well snowed in has given me some time to be curious.

It's a Second Model target in 32-20. The serial number puts it probably in the 1903-1904 range.

I've never shot it and would appreciate any first hand use and observations.

I'll post a picture tomorrow.

Thanks
Gary Stevens

 

[Retired W4]

I'm jealous even before the pictures show up.

 

[JP@AK]

You didn't give us much to go on, Gary.

Serial number; barrel length, etc.

Pictures???

I'd love to help but there isn't much I or anyone else can tell you with what you have provided.

 

[MrOverlay]

Well these pictures are not great, but they are at least pictures.

Sorry I couldn't get them turned correctly.

 

[MrOverlay]

You didn't give us much to go on, Gary.

Serial number; barrel length, etc.

Pictures???

I'd love to help but there isn't much I or anyone else can tell you with what you have provided.

Well I've solved part of that. I was more interested in the shooting of it. How did it do.

 

[JP@AK]

Those pictures clarify a little bit, but not a lot.

For one thing, this eliminates the possibility of the revolver being from 1903 and it is highly unlikely that it is from 1904. The square butt simply wasn't available until late 1904 and probably none or very few shipped in that year.

The stocks are from no earlier than 1910. So, if they are original to this gun, then it is much later than you think.

Here is what we need:
1. the serial number from the butt
2. whether there is a screw in the front of the trigger guard.

 

[JP@AK]

I was more interested in the shooting of it. How did it do.

I, of course, have no idea how "it" did. But I will tell you that I own a half dozen of these, made from 1903 until 1915. And a few from after that. Some are target models, some have fixed sights. All of them shoot well.

 

[cgt4570]

I'm sure you know that any .32-20 (aka .32 Winchester, aka .32 WCF) Smith revolver with target sights is at least hard to find, if not scarce or rare. I have a few, and love them. They all shoot great!
Modern factor loads, if you can find any, are perfectly safe to shoot in it. Way back when, in the 1920s +/-, a few companies made .32-20 that was only intended for use in stronger rifle actions. You are unlikely to find any of this, but just wanted to put it out there.

 

[MrOverlay]

I, of course, have no idea how "it" did. But I will tell you that I own a half dozen of these, made from 1903 until 1915. And a few from after that. Some are target models, some have fixed sights. All of them shoot well.

Sorry if my use of "it" was improper.

To answer your questions:

Yes it is a 5 screw.

The year of manufacture was a guess on my part based on the serial number range. This gun is 66129.

The grips are not numbered, so I don't know what to say on that.

 

[JP@AK]

Yes it is a 5 screw.

The year of manufacture was a guess on my part based on the serial number range. This gun is 66129.

.32-20 #66072 shipped in February 1917.
.32-20 #66712 shipped in April 1916.

The stocks are appropriate for that serial range, so they could be original. The serial number will be on the right panel, written with a pencil, so it might be difficult to see.

66129 would be a good serial number for a .38 M&P, Model of 1905 made in the 1905-1906 period. I'm guessing you looked at the .38 serial numbers, which are different from those used on the .32-20 revolvers.

 

[MrOverlay]

Well I'm baffled. I missed the round butt part and this is definitely a square butt. The barrel reads 32 W.C.F.

I have a 38 M&P Target also. I'll look at it tomorrow.

 

[Tom K]

I've rotated the pictures for you and cropped away some of the excess.

Now that they're right-side up I can see that this is a fixed-sight M&P that has been modified to add a modern S&W click adjustable rear sight to it, and a taller front blade. Hard to tell for sure but I don't believe this is a factory mod, likely the work of an independent gunsmith. Plus the cylinder appears to be a bit plum colored so likely a non-factory refinish as well.

An original S&W pre-WWII target rear sight looks completely different, like these (left to right - .22LR, .32-20, .38 Special):

 

[Retired W4]

Yep, post war rear sight added after it left the factory. I'll bet it still shoots good.

 

[StrawHat]

Nothing wrong with a Winchester Model that shoots to the sights! I have had several with fixed sights. They shot well. I wanted to add, but never did, adjustable sights.

Kevin

 

[JP@AK]

The barrel reads 32 W.C.F.

That is what we would expect at that serial number. The cartridge stamp on the barrel of the .32-20 changed twice after the original designation.
32 Winchester CTG from approximately 1900 to c. 1914
32 W.C.F. CTG from c. 1914 to c. 1922
32-20 CTG from c. 1922 until the end of production c. 1930

The .32-20 HE remained in the catalog until 1940.

In case anyone gets antsy about the 1900 date above, the model was introduced in 1899, but the earliest units were not marked with the cartridge designation. Hence, "approximately 1900."

 

[MrOverlay]

It is wonderful the amount of knowledge available on this forum, thank you.

While I don't have what I thought I had, I'm still happy that now my mystery is solved.

Now to tap into my one box of Black Hills Cowboy 32-20 ammo.

 

[cmansguns]

How they shoot??? OK for me...when you find the ammo!

OP's got a nice looking one, hope he posts after touching off some of his HSM Cowboy Action stash.

Mine shipped October 1921 per Roy (s/n 105093) and shoots just fine, albeit high and left but that may be me and my grip/stance which was a tad different from my normal on the day I shot this target.

I was gifted 3 boxes of HSM ammo (factory...Starline new brass with Lead bullets) but the ammo is a no-no at my ONLY indoor range around here and it is currently too snowy/icy to go hit the outdoor range which is a long distance away and located up 4 wheel drive type dirt roads.

 

[50 target]

I've had several; with fixed sights and with my eyes could not use the sights at all. Folks of that era must have been first cousins to an eagle. Now the Target model I have is a delight and shoots great. Just have to remember that if you reload to keep them sane. They aren't magnums.
For a shooter that gun wouldn't bother me at all with the newer sights. Just means I would shoot her more.
Enjoy.

 

[Kinman]

Excellent revolver, they are special. There is a huge file dedicated to the 32-20 on this site and you can well understand why considering the interest this cartridge has. Have fun with that thing, they are really fun to shoot...and they are loud.

 

[mm93]

I own the same gun, but mine isn't the target version. Mine shoots excellent and for fixed sights it still groups well considering the crude fixed sights. I load my own using 115 grain bullets and 4.0 grs. of Green Dot which is just over 800fps. A nice mid range load and accurate in all my .32-20 handguns and rifles.
I'm a huge fan of .32-20 and own several handguns, plus a half dozen 1800's single shot rifles in this cartridge.

 

[glenncal1]

Can someone 'splain why .32-20 ammo is now priced like it was made from gold? I mean it doesn't take much powder, a 100 grain lead bullet, small primer, ok the brass is a little more complex that 9mm, but come on.

Rant over

 

[Muley Gil]

Can someone 'splain why .32-20 ammo is now priced like it was made from gold? I mean it doesn't take much powder, a 100 grain lead bullet, small primer, ok the brass is a little more complex that 9mm, but come on.

Rant over

Low production. Like it or not, right now, 9mm Luger ammo and 5.56 NATO are the kings of the hill.

 

[mm93]

The .32-20 WCF has become a reloader's cartridge due to low sales. And I personally think sales are low because everybody I know who shoots a .32-20 much reloads for it.
Starline still does occasional runs of brass and they sell for around $34 per 100. I recently bought 1400 pcs. of NIB Starline from a friend who stopped reloading for $320 and sold the unopened box of 1000 for what I paid for all of it, so added another 400 pcs. to my hoard.

 

[Kinman]

I have a friend that has a vast Thompson Center collection. He belongs to the big club devoted to this unique firearm. He has gotten me interested enough to own a few and I do think the accuracy is superior to just about any other "pistol" I have ever fired, they are single shots which makes them a little on the odd side for what most people are interested in. One of the things we talk about is cartridge shortage and in the Contender world 32-20 is one of the most sought after, it is the basis for a number of Thompson wildcats including the .218 Bee. 32-20 is in the family of irritating tender necked cartridges like .22 Hornet and 25-20, and one of the reasons fewer people today mess around with them because you can get superior results from common bargain basement calibers like .223/5.56.
From the perspective of being uncommon and as much work to produce as those more easily sold it makes sense that for as long as I can remember .22 Hornet has always been expensive to purchase outright, as well as 32-20. I had a .22 Hornet way back and a box of 50 Winchester ran $10, it was 50 rounds where most other rifle calibers were 20 to a box, if you factored that in it may not have been so expensive, it just hurt to plop down a ten dollar bill in order to shoot that rifle, before I started reloading. My grandmother reloaded that .22 Hornet with a Lee Loader, they lived way out.

 

[rct269]

Given this gathering of 32-20 aficionados, perhaps someone can speak to the values--------or more to the point, the difference in value between these two. (Both are targets---all original---both in top condition. The only difference is age.) Both were sold during the recent liquidation of my collection.

#42094, shipped December 22, 1908, and fetched $3295.

#114655 shipped August 21, 1923, and went for $1225.

Is the difference in age the only difference worth talking about when it comes to values?

Ralph Tremaine

 

[glowe]

The .32-20 WCF has become a reloader's cartridge due to low sales. And I personally think sales are low because everybody I know who shoots a .32-20 much reloads for it . . .

In the late 1800s and early 1900s, the 32 Winchester was a very popular cartridge. It was offered in Colt and S&W revolvers, Winchester Model 1873 & 1892, and in Marlin rifle models starting with the Model 1889. Hundreds of thousands of guns were made in that caliber, but as happens with many calibers of the past, new and improved calibers replaced them and made them obsolete. In rifles, the 32 Special spelled the end of the underpowered 32-20. 38 Special & 38 Colt took over the revolver market in the early 1900s, ending the popularity of the 32-20 by 1920.

Just like many other calibers like 38 Colt and 32 S&W, 38 S&W, etc. that were replaced by more popular calibers, demand for those obsolete calibers also plumets. I can remember that well over 20 years ago 38 S&W was $50 a box in the stores if you could find them. Today's military demands and increased consumer demands on ammunition producers has all but eliminated even the possibility of future production of these obsolete calibers. Only the specialty ammo makers can offer these calibers and they can charge a premium.

 

[Drm50]

Presently have 3, 1905HEs and an original Marlin 1894. Shoot cast in all the them, RCBS 100gr mold. One of the HEs had been modified into Target model with K38 rear and DIY front. Finally got vintage grips for it. Got 3 really nice sets for $100. Two silver logo and one gold. On line people are nuts, beaters going close to $100 for one set.