32 4th model - Any suggestions for fixing the timing?

[Dutchboyy]

I've got a 32 4th model with really slow cylinder timing, and I'd like to correct it.

I tore it down, and the insides look really good. Everything is tight, very little wear. The hand looks good, and it fits well in the window. I don't see anything that needs attention in there.

The extractor teeth are worn, but they are not terrible. The endshake is quite bad, however. As a first step, I was considering installing a few appropriate shims on the cylinder shaft in an attempt to push the cylinder back into the frame.

Any suggestions or ideas? Thanks!

 

[glowe]

If there is excessive end-shake, it is likely that the hand is not catching the base of each tooth. I would first try to shim and see if that takes care of the problem. I have a pretty much new in the box 32 DA and the cylinder face/barrel gap measures .010". If that does not work, worn teeth can also cause the cylinder not to travel far enough to engage the bolt.

The question is why is the cylinder so loose? Is the frame stretched or bent, excessive wear, tinkered with, or stretched frame??

 

[Dutchboyy]

glowe, you bring up a good question about why the cylinder is so loose. Here's what I've observed: 1. The barrel latches up to the frame nice and tight; so I don't think anything there has been stretched. 2. The only sign of tinkering is the barrel hinge pivot screw. It's been BADLY buggered up. There's very little meat left on that screw head, and I couldn't do a thing with it without doing more damage; so I've left it alone. The witness marks on the other side still line up, and if I remember right, there's a serial number on the barrel that matches everything else. So I don't think the guy ever got that screw removed. I think he just saw a big screw head and thought it would be fun to take it apart, and all he had was the wrong kind of screwdriver. Who knows? 3. The face of the extractor IS worn. My best guess is that this area has been pounded into the frame by recoil, and it's gotten flatter. But that's just a guess. I'd go hunting for a replacement extractor to help both the endshake and the timing, but so far I have not been able to twist off the extractor rod to remove the extractor from the cylinder. (I hope it comes off by turning it counterclockwise, because that's the direction I've been trying!)

An aside: Does "Western UP" mean farther west than Escanaba? That used to be home. Many fond memories there.

 

[glowe]

It should be a standard thread, so you are turning it in the right direction. Might want to soak the cylinder assembly for a couple of days in some good quality penetrating oil. After soaking, place the front of the extractor rod in a vice and fill the chambers with spent brass (38 Special brass will work. Try to turn the cylinder by hand and hopefully it will come apart.

 

[Dutchboyy]

I've been out of town for a few days, and I left it soaking when I left. We'll see how that works out. Thanks for the tip about the 38 Special brass. On another place on the internet, a guy suggested grabbing the extractor rod with a drill chuck. I thought that I would try that too.

 

[Dutchboyy]

The drill chuck was a great idea! (And we both had a senior moment when we were writing about 38 Special. The gun is a 32! - but I used 32 S&W long and accomplished the same thing). The cylinder is now disassembled. (And I was terrified with the amount of torque that it took to break it lose, but no damage was done.) So if I have to go after a "new" extractor to fix this gun, that's a possibility now.

 

[glowe]

. . . The gun is a 32! - but I used 32 S&W long and accomplished the same thing). The cylinder is now disassembled. (And I was terrified with the amount of torque that it took to break it lose, but no damage was done.) So if I have to go after a "new" extractor to fix this gun, that's a possibility now.

Sorry for not getting the caliber correct, but you got the idea of securing the extractor in the cylinder with empty brass. Glad it came apart and hope you can find a different extractor in better condition.

 

[Dutchboyy]

I don't know how much Smith and Wesson used to pay the men who installed the trigger return springs and trigger guards on these 32 caliber, 1880 revolvers, but whatever they paid them, it was not NEARLY enough. It took me over two hours, and I had to fabricate a special tool, just to get mine installed. Two hours later. . . . .

If someone knows the secrets for how to do this job well, please put a video up on Youtube and post a link to it on this forum. Make it a sticky, too. Life is too short to do what I did to get that thing together.

 

[tlay]

I have had some trigger springs go in on the first try and some took an hour! This has to be the worst design ever!!! I don't know if there is a secret but it helps to drink 4 beers before and after!

 

[Dutchboyy]

The 32 4th model timing project is done. Here's what I learned:

- I could not shim the cylinder forward. Without all that endshake present, the cylinder would lock up when I tried to pull the trigger. I think the hand has to shove the cylinder forward in order to rise up. If you prevent the cylinder from moving forward, the hand can't come up, and the gun locks up. I'm not really sure what's going on, but a shim of only a couple thousandths would lock up the gun.

- Completely disassembling the gun, cleaning every piece, and then reassembling the gun seems to have fixed the timing problem. It works well in both single and double action now. I'm not sure why, but it works.

- Replacing the trigger guard is nasty business. Never take it off unless you absolutely have to.

- Using a drill chuck to grab the cylinder rod works really well.

- The fact that men fitted these guns together with hand tools in dimly lit rooms is amazing. Things have to be very precisely fitted on these guns or they will not work.

 

[tlay]

If it wasn't for the trigger spring getting the trigger guard on and off is easy. Just chuck the grip frame in a padded vise with enough distance between the trigger guard and the vise to get a hammer handle in. Push towards the barrel and the guard will unlatch. Do the same for putting it back on but push with your other hand on the guard to latch it. As for the spring, pray!!!

 

[Dutchboyy]

I can't tell you how many times I heard that little "twang" telling me that the tip of the trigger return spring had just slipped off the front of the trigger, and I had to start over again.

 

[tjpopkin]

Seems to me that if you are disassembling and re-assembling these guns, you should have a copy of David Chicoine's(Spelling) book on these guns.
In the Forum section, one of our members has the book for sale.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/swca-s...pdated-june-21-chicoines-gunsmithing-etc.html

 

[Dutchboyy]

The link didn't work for me. I got an error message saying that my user account wasn't good enough to let me in. ????????

 

[walter o]

trigger guard removal

I use a different method to remove the guard . I have a set of channel locks that i crazy, glue leather strips to the jaws,so as to not scratch the guard.crab the front and back of the guard in the padded jaws and GENTLY squeeze and lift out the trigger guard. .Re assembly is also easy set the trigger spring in place and gently squeeze and slip the guard in place without moving the spring.For me it has worked like a charm . hope this can help others

 

[JerryWeedman]

I need a trigger return spring and an extractor spring for a Smith & Wesson 32 double action revolver model no 4. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

[glowe]

I need a trigger return spring and an extractor spring for a Smith & Wesson 32 double action revolver model no 4. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Welcome to the Forum. There is a Want to Buy section on this Forum and it would be a better place for members to find your parts request then at the end of someone's unrelated thread. Parts suppliers are pretty much out of most parts for these old revolvers. Numrich Gun Parts is one of the best, but doubt that they are likely to have much. Check eBay, since there are often various S&W parts for sale. Alternatively, you can,make a trigger V spring from spring steel. If you have the broken spring, it is not hard to make replacement flat springs. When you mention extractor spring, are you referring to the small coil spring that holds the extractor against the cylinder? If so, a local hardware store might have the right size spring for your gun.

 

[JerryWeedman]

Springs

Thanks for the tips. I checked Numrich. There are none in stock. The old springs were missing when I got the gun. If I had a sample, or at least the dimensions, I would try to make one. Thanks, again , for your reply.

Jerry