I've read a number of posts regarding the 32 winchester ctg. My mother has one her grandfather gave her. The serial number is 14273. Given that info, can you tell me when it manufactured and if it is the equivalent of the .32-20 that has been discussed in this forum. I have looked the pistol over and have not found where it is stamped with M&P anywhere, even though many posts allude to that designation on many of the 32 winchester ctg's. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
32 winchester ctg info
- Thread starter Carl_Sartin
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nicky4968
Member
Welcome to the forum. Other, wiser heads will answer your questions about the .32-20, as I have little experience with it.
But to clear up one question. The pistol is called the M&P (for military and police) as it has fixed sights rather than target sights. The name "M&P" or "Military & Police" was never stamped on the gun.
The great disadvantage to the fixed-sight pistols is that you can't easily adjust the sights.
The great advantage to the fixed-sight pistols is that you can't easily adjust the sights.
(You don't get something for nothing).
But to clear up one question. The pistol is called the M&P (for military and police) as it has fixed sights rather than target sights. The name "M&P" or "Military & Police" was never stamped on the gun.
The great disadvantage to the fixed-sight pistols is that you can't easily adjust the sights.
The great advantage to the fixed-sight pistols is that you can't easily adjust the sights.
(You don't get something for nothing).
opoefc
US Veteran
Is it a round butt or square butt gun? How long is the barrel? The gun is a Model of 1902, 1st change, and the barrel should be marked ".32 WCF Ctg." which is the same as the .32-20 round.
OP
The pistol has a square "butt". The barrel is 3" from the frame to the tip of the barrel. The markings on the barrel are "32 WINCHESTER CTG". The grips look to be after market or homemade; they fit loosely.
Is it still possible to bet the correct grips for this gun or a set that would fit it?
Thanks again for your help.
Is it still possible to bet the correct grips for this gun or a set that would fit it?
Thanks again for your help.
Carl
Measure the barrel from the tip of the muzzle to the front face of the cylinder.
That is its correct length, and I'm guessing its 4 inches.
Later, Mike Priwer
Measure the barrel from the tip of the muzzle to the front face of the cylinder.
That is its correct length, and I'm guessing its 4 inches.
Later, Mike Priwer
Messer
Member
As others have said - the 32 Winchester Ctg. is also known as the 32-20, and the 32 WCF. Fun little round.
Here is what my 1902 looks like...
(by the way, this one is up for sale if anyone "needs" one
)
Take care,
Bob S.
Here is what my 1902 looks like...
(by the way, this one is up for sale if anyone "needs" one
Take care,
Bob S.
rburg
Member
If you look around, you can find correct period grips. The problem is they're going to be costly. Even then, they may not fit perfectly. Some require some additional fitting with sandpaper, etc.
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S&W 32-20
I have the revolver with a 6" barrel, it belonged to my Grandfather who was a constable in a small town in Calif.
Serial # 45698. The rear sight does have a small screw for wind age adjustment.
First time on this site. Does anyone know where I can get info on gun as far as when manufactured etc...?
I have the revolver with a 6" barrel, it belonged to my Grandfather who was a constable in a small town in Calif.
Serial # 45698. The rear sight does have a small screw for wind age adjustment.
First time on this site. Does anyone know where I can get info on gun as far as when manufactured etc...?
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DWalt
Member
Earliest revolvers were stamped .32 Winchester, then .32 WCF (Winchester Center Fire), then .32-20. All are names for the same cartridge. S&W discontinued the manufacture of .32-20 revolvers around 1930. The "M&P" (Military and Police) designation was not used in factory advertising until 1917 (prior to that, S&W called them "Military" revolvers, even though only very few were purchased by the U. S. Military prior to WWII), and to the best of my knowledge, "M&P" was never stamped on any S&W revolver. In fact, until 1957, S&W stamped no model designations on any M&P revolver.
DWalt
Member
If it's in .32-20, it would be from approximately 1909-10, and with the adjustable rear sight, if factory original, it would be a K-frame target model. Those are somewhat unusual. With a square butt, it would be called a .32 Hand Ejector, Model of 1905, third change. With a round butt, it would be a Model of 1902. There is essentially no difference between 1905 and 1902 models other than round vs. square butt. S&W dropped the 1905-1902 nomenclature distinction around the time of WWI.
Regarding the cartridge designation on the barrel, the approximate years of change were:
32 Winchester CTG from 1899 until 1914
32 W.C.F. CTG from 1914-1922
32-20 CTG from 1922 until the end of production, c. 1930.
Note - none of these alterations closely corresponds to engineering changes.
32 Winchester CTG from 1899 until 1914
32 W.C.F. CTG from 1914-1922
32-20 CTG from 1922 until the end of production, c. 1930.
Note - none of these alterations closely corresponds to engineering changes.
Alk8944
US Veteran
Carlsartin,
There needs to be a bit of clarification and correction. What your Mother has is a Model 1902, First Change, .32 Winchester Hand Ejector. It was manufactured, probably late 1904 to early 1905 since it is a square butt. The square butt actually made its' appearance in 1904 before the Model 1905 was introduced.
As JP@AK stated the .32 Winchester, .32 WCF, and .32-20 are just different designations for the same cartridge.
Before 1910 there were two types of stocks for the K-Frame guns. They could be either checkered hard rubber (Ebonite) with moulded in medallions in RB, or checkered Walnut for either RB or SB. Mcmillanbr posted a photo of correct stocks. The others posted, while obviously well-meaning, were incorrect! The "Convex round top" style posted by Messer dates from the 1922-1928 period. Those shown by Combat are at least from 1928 or later and are not original to his gun which dated to ca. 1921.
While this model looks like a Military & Police, and is a K-Frame, it is not a Military & Police, but rather a "Winchester Model". Neither McHenry & Roper nor Supica & Nahas refer to this variation as a Military & Police! These guns had their own distinct serial number series.
Below are photos of correct stocks from the 1899 to 1910 period. They are original and numbered to the revolvers they are. The Hard Rubber are on a late Model 1902 1st Change made in, probably, 1905. The Walnut SB are on a late 1905 2nd Change from ca. 1907.
".....with the adjustable rear sight, if factory original, it would be a K-frame target model. Those are somewhat unusual. With a square butt, it would be called a .32 Hand Ejector, Model of 1905, third change. With a round butt, it would be a Model of 1902." DWalt, I don't know when your brain slipped out of gear, but I know that you know better!!!
Well, I was going to post some thumbnails of the correct stocks, but all I seem to get is "Upload Failed"! Maybe later.
There needs to be a bit of clarification and correction. What your Mother has is a Model 1902, First Change, .32 Winchester Hand Ejector. It was manufactured, probably late 1904 to early 1905 since it is a square butt. The square butt actually made its' appearance in 1904 before the Model 1905 was introduced.
As JP@AK stated the .32 Winchester, .32 WCF, and .32-20 are just different designations for the same cartridge.
Before 1910 there were two types of stocks for the K-Frame guns. They could be either checkered hard rubber (Ebonite) with moulded in medallions in RB, or checkered Walnut for either RB or SB. Mcmillanbr posted a photo of correct stocks. The others posted, while obviously well-meaning, were incorrect! The "Convex round top" style posted by Messer dates from the 1922-1928 period. Those shown by Combat are at least from 1928 or later and are not original to his gun which dated to ca. 1921.
While this model looks like a Military & Police, and is a K-Frame, it is not a Military & Police, but rather a "Winchester Model". Neither McHenry & Roper nor Supica & Nahas refer to this variation as a Military & Police! These guns had their own distinct serial number series.
Below are photos of correct stocks from the 1899 to 1910 period. They are original and numbered to the revolvers they are. The Hard Rubber are on a late Model 1902 1st Change made in, probably, 1905. The Walnut SB are on a late 1905 2nd Change from ca. 1907.
".....with the adjustable rear sight, if factory original, it would be a K-frame target model. Those are somewhat unusual. With a square butt, it would be called a .32 Hand Ejector, Model of 1905, third change. With a round butt, it would be a Model of 1902." DWalt, I don't know when your brain slipped out of gear, but I know that you know better!!!
Well, I was going to post some thumbnails of the correct stocks, but all I seem to get is "Upload Failed"! Maybe later.
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Has anyone noticed that this thread started in June 2009 and that the OP only made 2 posts???????
Skeetr57
Member
I don't know what the other authorities say about the gun in question, but the S&W catalog for 1923 says it is A "Military and Police, 32-20 (Winchester)". It was available with 4, 5 or 6 inch barrel, nickel plate or blued and with square butt only with checkered wood stocks. Available with target sight in 6" blued only. That is on page 12 of the D-3 catalog dated March 1923.
The D-3 price list, dated Dec 20, 1923 also calls it the Military and Police and gives the price as $32.50 for the standard gun or $37.25 for the target version.
The D-3 price list, dated Dec 20, 1923 also calls it the Military and Police and gives the price as $32.50 for the standard gun or $37.25 for the target version.
There are quite a few opinions on the proper naming conventions for the K frame hand-ejectors in both 32-20 and 38 calibers. I like to use the catalogs as well to name guns, since in the early 1900s, I would guess the sales department was not very far from the President's office and would guess no catalogs would have gone to print without high level reviews.
Anyway, the 32-20 has a couple of interesting pages in old catalogs. First, the 1914 catalog names thie revolver as Military Revolver 1905 Model. As the page below demonstrates, both cartridges were listed under this heading. The 1923 catalog has 3 seperate listings for this K frame - Military & Police Round Butt, 38 Special, Military & Police Square Butt, 38 Special, and Military & Police 32-23 Winchester Square Butt.
Maybe everyone is right, depending on what source you use!
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So since the OP has bailed, may I ask about how many 1905 target versions might have been made with 6" barrels and square butts? Is one in decent shape worth $550?
Not that many. And yes, that sounds like a good price, providing it is in good ORIGINAL condition, not a reblue.
Skeetr57
Member
The .32-20 M&P with target sights is much more scarce than the .38 special version, and the prices I have seen indicate that. If I found a decent .32-20 target at that price I would jump on it, since most I see are asking at least twice that much.
