I carry two guns as well, but I'm not as cool as @Riposte1. My primary is a 2.5" 686-6, but my secondary is just a Beretta 21A in .25 ACP. I carry a reload for my 686, but have the 21A just in case I need something preferable to a sharp stick rather quickly. I carry the 686 appendix in a custom IWB holster I had a local saddle maker make for me. I carry the 21A in leather pocket holster in my right front pocket. I use Buffalo Bore ammunition for both, their low muzzle flash 158gr .357 Magnum load and their 70gr .25 ACP load. My reload for the 686 is in a DeSantis 2x2x2, and I carry no reload for the mouse gun
Revolver vs. Semi Auto for CCW
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Malkovich
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Interesting paintwork on the front sight blade and the extended grip.
TheBronze355
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The problem with these discussions is what I call the "What if" scenario. I'm a retired LEO with over thirty years. I was a range instructor for 15 of those. For all those years I've seen a constant stream of people that spin out over the what if this..what if that. They are never satisfied with what they carry because in their minds they are always coming up with weird scenarios. One even asked me "what if" we were invaded while at work and we had to fight out way home. I mean..come on..really?
I'd usually tell these people that they should look at what they do, where they go, how they dress and what is the most likely threat they would face. Even here in Los Angeles, if you keep you head out of your phone you can usually spot trouble a long way away. In those scenarios you need a "get off me" gun.
If you get confronted by the whacko with a knife at the gas pump you can usually deal with that with a small revolver or .380. If I'm in a mall and someone starts shooting I'm heading for a door. Because of the heat here I'm usually in shorts and T-shirt so concealment is a real issue. I'm more likely to get jammed up because someone saw my gun and calls the cops than I am to get confronted by a real threat, so I carry accordingly.
There is no perfect gun. And you can never be prepared for ANY threat. You have to accept a certain amount of fate in life or you'd never leave the house! I mean a chunk of frozen urine could fall off of a plane and hit you in the head...you gonna wear a helmet everywhere?
Pick what you can conceal that is reliable and shoots well, train with it and move on.
I'd usually tell these people that they should look at what they do, where they go, how they dress and what is the most likely threat they would face. Even here in Los Angeles, if you keep you head out of your phone you can usually spot trouble a long way away. In those scenarios you need a "get off me" gun.
If you get confronted by the whacko with a knife at the gas pump you can usually deal with that with a small revolver or .380. If I'm in a mall and someone starts shooting I'm heading for a door. Because of the heat here I'm usually in shorts and T-shirt so concealment is a real issue. I'm more likely to get jammed up because someone saw my gun and calls the cops than I am to get confronted by a real threat, so I carry accordingly.
There is no perfect gun. And you can never be prepared for ANY threat. You have to accept a certain amount of fate in life or you'd never leave the house! I mean a chunk of frozen urine could fall off of a plane and hit you in the head...you gonna wear a helmet everywhere?
Pick what you can conceal that is reliable and shoots well, train with it and move on.
But if you lived in today's world, and if there were roving gangs of armed men, and if these men were not a bunch of undisciplined and inept imbeciles and degenerates but were, in fact, a sinister, well-organized, nasty-looking group from drug cartel that just crossed the border, maybe from Canada, I don't know, those Canadians look mean to me, then what would you carry? Select Fire M4, right?
Gentlemen, turn on your Sarcasm Detectors.
The big word in your post is ...IF....Don't play mind games.
B
But if you were aware of the possibility of the fingerprints and DNA, surely you would have ensured that they were not on the brass when you loaded the weapon?
Mister Coffee
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Thirsty Traveler
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I love this discussion. There's no wrong answer! Shoot what you comfortable and capable with.
Having said the above, here's my .2$, I was a PO, back in the day, when we went from 38 revolvers to 9mm semis. I could never understand how it took so long for the transition to happen. The difference, for me, using speed loaders in a revolver to reload, vrs dumping/inserting a mag was like going from eating soup with a fork then finally switching to a spoon! And this was in a practice scenarios, not under the duress of a gunfight! (I've been shot at once, can't tell you how much I was shaking)
Not bashing revolver users, again if this is what your comfortable and competent with, then that's what you should carry, just make sure you practice practice practice, especially reloading!
TT
Having said the above, here's my .2$, I was a PO, back in the day, when we went from 38 revolvers to 9mm semis. I could never understand how it took so long for the transition to happen. The difference, for me, using speed loaders in a revolver to reload, vrs dumping/inserting a mag was like going from eating soup with a fork then finally switching to a spoon! And this was in a practice scenarios, not under the duress of a gunfight! (I've been shot at once, can't tell you how much I was shaking)
Not bashing revolver users, again if this is what your comfortable and competent with, then that's what you should carry, just make sure you practice practice practice, especially reloading!
TT
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"Use the right tool for the right job."
No matter what type of gun you carry, know the strengths and vulnerabilities of your weapons system, and train to be efficient and confident in your abilities.
I believe the most important aspect of training is to train common sense and go the other way when your spider senses start to tingle. Trust your intuitive mind over your cognitive mind.
"The only way to win a gunfight…is not to be there."
No matter what type of gun you carry, know the strengths and vulnerabilities of your weapons system, and train to be efficient and confident in your abilities.
I believe the most important aspect of training is to train common sense and go the other way when your spider senses start to tingle. Trust your intuitive mind over your cognitive mind.
"The only way to win a gunfight…is not to be there."
You have any evidence of that? Case evaluation reports? Every time a cop dies in such an event there is detailed after action report detailing such events. Show me cases where a cop carrying a revolver struggled with a perp and was killed.
You might know of such cases, I do not and I have been in the cop and prosecutor business for over 55 years.
In looking at such cases, you have to subtract out those cases where the guy got away some distance and then killed the cop with his own gun. But the number is too trivial to even consider. Note this:
Over the eight years from 2011 to 2018, the rate that officers are murdered with their gun when they are injured from the assault is 0.0057%. If you look at the rate relative to all assaults, it is 0.0016%. https://crimeresearch.org/2024/05/the-rate-that-police-officers-are-murdered-with-their-own-weapon/
I understand the concern, but there is not much data to support your comment. Of the 7 officers killed with their own gun, none of them were with wheel guns to my knowledge and only by examining each case can we see what went wrong.
And relative to this discussion is 2 facts. One police usually use retention holsters, most civilian carriers do not.
And 2, I would agree that most police officers are far superior than the average person in resisting an attack over their gun. Simple logic tells us that a police officer who makes arrests daily is in a far superior position to survive that attack, that some CCW carrier person who has not even been in a simple fistfight in 40 years. The exception will be people who are daily involved in the martial arts or some similar sport.
Just saying. Anyone wide awake is not going to let a stranger get hold on your handgun, without you being able to defend that attack. I am only 76, maybe I will lose that ability, I dunno
Another point I forgot to mention is that short barreled revolvers have short sighting radiuses leading to a loss in accuracy compared to the often longer sight radius of an auto pistol, and the short barrel revolver creates more muzzle blast which can blind you at night and more muzzle blast leads to less accurate shooting as well.
I think the "real" reason people often carry a revolver is the "erroneous" belief that they are more reliable which many times is not the case at all. Any contamination from clothing, dust, mud, etc will jam up a revolver faster than a cat can jump off of a hot time roof.
Another "erroneous" belief is that they are much more powerful. With today's modern ammo the 9mm has become king and is very lethal. I once shot a Whitetail Deer which before field dressing weighed out a good 180 lbs and only one shot flattened him. I did not need to cut him in two with a 44 or larger magnum.
I think the "real" reason people often carry a revolver is the "erroneous" belief that they are more reliable which many times is not the case at all. Any contamination from clothing, dust, mud, etc will jam up a revolver faster than a cat can jump off of a hot time roof.
Another "erroneous" belief is that they are much more powerful. With today's modern ammo the 9mm has become king and is very lethal. I once shot a Whitetail Deer which before field dressing weighed out a good 180 lbs and only one shot flattened him. I did not need to cut him in two with a 44 or larger magnum.
walkin' trails
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Go search "Craig Douglas" and/or "Shiveworks" on YouTube. See how effortlessly he demonstrates how to use a pocket sized handgun. I'd like to take one of his classes but am afraid I'm a little older and a little more beat up than I like for that type of training.
Anyway, three problems at a gas station and all you have is a five shot. What's the likelihood that when they see a gun, they'll scatter and won't be too concerned how many rounds it holds.
Or better, scope out where one stops so that type of incident has a better chance of remaining hypothetical. Pepper spray's not always a bad thing either, as is a bright flashlight to disorient night dwellers so one can more to more advantageous positions to serve pepper or just get back in line the car and leave.
Anyway, three problems at a gas station and all you have is a five shot. What's the likelihood that when they see a gun, they'll scatter and won't be too concerned how many rounds it holds.
Or better, scope out where one stops so that type of incident has a better chance of remaining hypothetical. Pepper spray's not always a bad thing either, as is a bright flashlight to disorient night dwellers so one can more to more advantageous positions to serve pepper or just get back in line the car and leave.
This is actually my exact 99% of the time EDC too. Beretta 84FS in a Beretta IWB holster or a 442 in a Don Hume pocket or generic Kydex or soft pleather holster; one reload if I'm wheeling it.My go-to comparison photo. I'm a whole lot more likely to hit the target with that Beretta than I am the J Frame. Neat revolver - just not for me.
I live in Central Texas and I really don't think I need any "more" firepower than either of these. I'm highly unlikely to be mauled by a bear or an immigrant here.
Of greater concern is the prospect of a mass shooter, or a tweaker. Accuracy is paramount, and I must say the beretta (and the Bersas) are absolutely peak at that.
I can tell you for sure, having lived and worked in inner city Detroit for years and knowing personally several car jackers as well as one person who killed a car jacker in the act, you have no time whatsoever to react if you are stopped at an intersection and a jacker comes up to your window with a gun. Your only hope is to have it out and ready, pointed at the guy outside through the door. Shoot through the door and put them down. Then drive to get away before their friends can react. Best not to fully stop at any intersection for anything and, as always, keep your head on a swivel. If bumped from behind, do not stop but drive quickly to the nearest police location and calling 911 to report the incident. and your location. Ask 911 to assist you in getting to the nearest police station. And, yes, it can happen to anybody at any time.
I have no problem with wheel guns and carry one . I was talking about open carry in general.
I do live near a "safe" city (if there is actually anyplace safe) of 500 but I live 2 miles outside the limits - even so there have been three shootouts there in the last 40 years.
Actually, I do have a long gun in the car. I got a new car - well a different car, not exactly new - back in January and found my old #5 Enfied, in .303 British didn't fit in the boot - so I resurected my Remington Model 141 cut to 16.5" in .35 Remington.
That is not so easy to reach in this car so I also carry a 5" S&W 629 classic behind the passenger seat (which I can reach from the drivers seat) in .44 Magnum - but for attempted car jackings where I could not just drive off, it will likely be my BUG, which is carried in a cross-draw holster - though I have done a bit of work over the years with my strong side gun.
Also I've done a considerable amount of shooting through auto glass.
Cheers!
Riposte
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The best gunfight you could ever get into, is the one you can avoid!
TT
TT
VinnieL59
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I retired with 28 yrs. as a LEO. I agree with your synopsis completely. I worked with cops who constantly were rehearsing "what-if- scenerios" and I'm sure you did too. Back in the day, I was confident and competent with the .357 magnum and 30 rounds of ammo I carried, and later the Beretta 92 FS and 46 rounds I carried with it. I was off the street when AR rifles were approved. I remember being out in the lot behind the station working on a video recorder in a squad when a newbe was doing the function test on an AR and sent a bullet into the air. Obviously he wasn't that competent. I still carry, and am still competent and confident, but not over-confident in my abilities should things turn to human fertilyzer, but avoidance would always be the prefered choice if available.
I like to keep it simple. I carry a 649 body guard, with .38 + P, in my pocket and I feel fully protected with that. No safety, no jamming, no problems.
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