325 PD UPDATE: YOU GUYS WONT BELIVE IT!
- Thread starter daddio202
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All of my S&W .45 ACP revolvers have not only worked fine without clips but I have never been able to detect a difference in accuracy when the guns were fired with or without them. Being no great fan of loading and unloading the clips, I usually don't use them when shooting on the indoor range.
HarrishMasher
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Yes the moon clip tool is an absolute must. It makes the job so much easier. Go to revolversupply.com and pick one up.
Pizza Bob
Member
There may be people that tell you that you can use your rimless cartridge moon clip gun without moon clips. They will claim that the round will headspace on the shoulder in the chamber, theoretically, they are correct. However, since SAAMI sets the specs for cartridge dimensions, the shoulder is placed at maximum case length depth for a given caliber. My experience has been that most factory ammo or brass, when new, is always considerably less than this dimension - meaning that, in reality, headspacing on that shoulder, by the case mouth, seldom actually occurs.
This is more common with newer .45 ACP guns with SAAMI-spec chambers. While SAAMI has been around since 1926 and the .45 ACP was adopted in its current form in 1911, the SAAMI cartridge dimension drawings weren't done until 1979. So it is quite possible that early .45 ACP revolvers may be more likely to function without clips, with a
higher rate of reliability, than guns made post-1979, as chamber dimensions were at the discretion of the manufacturer.
What does happen is that variances in chamber roundness, smoothness, cleanliness and other variables, will hold some cartridges firmly enough that a firing pin strike will ignite the primers. Others are driven forward in the chamber, which results in a light primer strike and a failure to ignite.
Just as some rounds are held tightly enough for ignition and others are driven forward, some cases may drop out of the cylinder from gravity, while others may be "pluckable" and yet others will have to be poked out using a rod.
You should consider moon clips essential for any revolver that is chambered for a rimless or semi-rimmed round. The other alternative is using the rimmed version of that round, if one exists.
Moon clips are the greatest thing since sliced bread and people's aversion to them is, most likely, founded in falsehoods found on the Internet or from people who either have no personal experience, or just a passing experience with them. In order to fully utilize, and fully enjoy, them requires the right tool(s) to load and unload the clips. The best tool that I've found is the BMT. It both loads and unloads the clips. An alternative
to metal clips and specific load/unload tools are the Rimz polymer moon clips. These are easily loaded and unloaded by hand.
You may balk at the cost of these ancillary devices - but consider what you just spent for the gun - isn't spending that extra little bit to insure full enjoyment from your investment worth it?
Adios,
Pizza Bob
This is more common with newer .45 ACP guns with SAAMI-spec chambers. While SAAMI has been around since 1926 and the .45 ACP was adopted in its current form in 1911, the SAAMI cartridge dimension drawings weren't done until 1979. So it is quite possible that early .45 ACP revolvers may be more likely to function without clips, with a
higher rate of reliability, than guns made post-1979, as chamber dimensions were at the discretion of the manufacturer.
What does happen is that variances in chamber roundness, smoothness, cleanliness and other variables, will hold some cartridges firmly enough that a firing pin strike will ignite the primers. Others are driven forward in the chamber, which results in a light primer strike and a failure to ignite.
Just as some rounds are held tightly enough for ignition and others are driven forward, some cases may drop out of the cylinder from gravity, while others may be "pluckable" and yet others will have to be poked out using a rod.
You should consider moon clips essential for any revolver that is chambered for a rimless or semi-rimmed round. The other alternative is using the rimmed version of that round, if one exists.
Moon clips are the greatest thing since sliced bread and people's aversion to them is, most likely, founded in falsehoods found on the Internet or from people who either have no personal experience, or just a passing experience with them. In order to fully utilize, and fully enjoy, them requires the right tool(s) to load and unload the clips. The best tool that I've found is the BMT. It both loads and unloads the clips. An alternative
to metal clips and specific load/unload tools are the Rimz polymer moon clips. These are easily loaded and unloaded by hand.
You may balk at the cost of these ancillary devices - but consider what you just spent for the gun - isn't spending that extra little bit to insure full enjoyment from your investment worth it?
Adios,
Pizza Bob
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There are some revolvers in semi-rimmed chamberings (current Ruger 9 mms) that will not fire without clips, but as far as I have seen S & W .45 ACPs are always able to do so. Extraction without clips is more difficult 
.
.
OP
daddio202
Member
Seems to me there is a fair amount of confusion out there with this concern of use of moon clips. This gun is my first experience into the world of rimless cartridges. At first just to be safe I am going to use the clips. Being I reload the next logical step will be to purchase 45 acp rimmed brass and just reload cartridges for use with only this gun only. Just because it is possible to do something doesn't necessarily mean it is correct.
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Yes, it is best to use the clips. For range use I like the Rimz plastic ones, easy to load and unload, but wouldn't use them for serious social purposes.
I, too, believe that moon clips are the greatest thing since sliced bread. And I already spent a few bucks for a lifetime supply of moon clips and a first-rate loader. However, I don't always use moon clips at the range because it is usually unnecessary and is always extra work. I have never had a misfire. Note use of the word "never." I think that you know what that means.
I use moon clips when I want speed of loading. With newer revolvers I might consider moon clips a a slight reliability improvement for defensive carry, but I do spin-check them in the revolver for straightness, and I would go for moon clips anyway for reloading advantage.
Your pretending that choosing not to use moon clips is based not wanting to spend money is false. When I don't use them, it's so that I can get MORE enjoyment from my "investment."
I'm sorry if your revolver doesn't work all the time. My revolvers, both classic and modern, work without moon clips. Every time.
The older guns were designed to be used with or without moonclips, period. None of mine have ever failed to fire, not even once, either way. I use the clips from Revolver Supply and they have worked with every gun and many makes of ammunition.
Pizza Bob
Member
I have no desire to use my moon clip guns without the clips, since that is not what S&W intended. I also find that I have more time to enjoy my guns at the range when I pre-load the moon clips at home, rather than wasting time picking or poking the empties out of the cylinder.
I'm not saying that you have to use clips - it's your gun, do with it what you will - but for 100% reliability and maximum enjoyment, I prefer to use them as they were designed to be used.
Adios,
Pizza Bob
I first tried the moonclips by hand no go for me. I got the moonclip tool & a demonetized like the one above makes it all easy & fairly quick. You can use the end of the moonclip tool as a demooner but the aluminum will wear away so it's best to have the screwdriver like one. I put the loaded clips in a Tupperware container to go to the range.
Groo01
Member
Groo here
Find Ranch Products and order by the 100.
Find Ranch Products and order by the 100.
OP
daddio202
Member
Wondering about a ship date? #daw1329 anybody know?
montezumaz
US Veteran
Keep the rubbers for range time and find a nice set of wood stocks for in between and going to barbecues.
cmj8591
Member
Of course there is always the 45 Auto Rim cartridge. It will chamber, eject and, as an added benefit for those who reload, you can use a heavy roll crimp without worrying about head space.
Well, I'll throw a little more gas on this already silly fire. 
IIRC, my early S&W .45 revolvers (both 1955s and 25-2s) came with HALF-moon clips, which I do consider an aid to reliability versus moonclips and no clips.
Alas, you hardly ever hear anyone even mention them any more, though they are still just as good as they have ever been, viz. a viz. "the way S&W designed the gun to work."
Really, this is a no argument at all. The guns work fine with or without clips so have fun shooting your new 325 any way or ways you please.
IIRC, my early S&W .45 revolvers (both 1955s and 25-2s) came with HALF-moon clips, which I do consider an aid to reliability versus moonclips and no clips.
Alas, you hardly ever hear anyone even mention them any more, though they are still just as good as they have ever been, viz. a viz. "the way S&W designed the gun to work." Really, this is a no argument at all. The guns work fine with or without clips so have fun shooting your new 325 any way or ways you please.
325NG
I agree.
I have a 325NG (mfd. 2008), a 325TR (mfd. 2015), & a PC 625-8 (mfd. 2016). Whenever I've "tested" their consistency to fire 45ACP rounds, without moon clips, at the range, I've never had a FTF shooting 50-100 rounds at an outing.
The 325NG has the factory original firing pin but the 325TR & PC625 have extended firing pins because they had light strikes/FTF right out of the box.
That said, I would never shoot them w/o moon clips in anything other than a casual setting. Definitely not in a SD situation.
I do like to use the Rimz moon clips though, at the range, with 45ACP, if the situation warrants.
Personally I prefer Starline 45 Auto Rims, for my range time, & I have (600) loaded at any given time. This brass can also be loaded to 45 Super power without issue & I can save my S-L 45 Super brass for my 4586.
However, my bed stand 325NG has (2) loaded moon clips sitting with it. That I like.
A little bit of everything for me, I guess.
.
daddio202, Let use know how that "good deal gun" shoots for you. Congrats!
.
Night Guard, M325
(-01a)
.
I agree.
I have a 325NG (mfd. 2008), a 325TR (mfd. 2015), & a PC 625-8 (mfd. 2016). Whenever I've "tested" their consistency to fire 45ACP rounds, without moon clips, at the range, I've never had a FTF shooting 50-100 rounds at an outing.
The 325NG has the factory original firing pin but the 325TR & PC625 have extended firing pins because they had light strikes/FTF right out of the box.
That said, I would never shoot them w/o moon clips in anything other than a casual setting. Definitely not in a SD situation.
I do like to use the Rimz moon clips though, at the range, with 45ACP, if the situation warrants.
Personally I prefer Starline 45 Auto Rims, for my range time, & I have (600) loaded at any given time. This brass can also be loaded to 45 Super power without issue & I can save my S-L 45 Super brass for my 4586.
However, my bed stand 325NG has (2) loaded moon clips sitting with it. That I like.
A little bit of everything for me, I guess.
.
daddio202, Let use know how that "good deal gun" shoots for you. Congrats!
.
Night Guard, M325
(-01a)
.
I am a big fan of the S&W 45s and agree that full moons are like sliced bread. Just like brass, get a lot and enjoy. I look at the clips as part of the reloading process. Unclip, reload, fill clips.
I am currently caring a 2 3/4" PD. I don't carry spare rounds in full moons though. I have a few of the clips that hold 2 rounds. A few of those don't bulk up my pocket and heaven forbid, if I ever need more than 6 rounds I can reload with them pretty fast.
Your getting a great gun at a bargain basement price.
I am currently caring a 2 3/4" PD. I don't carry spare rounds in full moons though. I have a few of the clips that hold 2 rounds. A few of those don't bulk up my pocket and heaven forbid, if I ever need more than 6 rounds I can reload with them pretty fast.
Your getting a great gun at a bargain basement price.
OP
daddio202
Member
I will start another thread on Saturday for a range report, after I pick up gun, clean then go to range. I have moon clips in the mail to me, as well as 45 auto rimmed brass I ordered from midway yesterday. Eventually I will have the best of both worlds for my new to me and only S&W I will own with the Lock hole in her. The gun does not come with anything so no key for lock so hopefully the lock will not be an issue. I have a Remington Anniversary Wingmaster from 2001 with a lock in it. Apparently Remington tried the whole lock idea for a few years too. I choose just not to use it and have not had a problem with that gun even though I went ahead and ordered a key for it just in case.
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One thing that I don't believe was mentioned is crimp jump. In the sc/ti guns the bullets from recoil can move forward out of the case due to recoil. I have never had it happen yet but I have only shot factory ammo which is pretty cheap now at $13/50 delivered to my door. If you reload you will need a good crimp to keep the rounds intact while firing.
HarrishMasher
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Don't waste your time cleaning it when you pick it up. Go shoot it, then clean it. It's a revolver, you will have a very hard time getting it dirty enough to make it not work through shooting it.
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zogger
Member
I was leery of moon clips before I got my 325 TR. Now I am a fan. I just have a demooning tool. I find I can hand load 5 rounds easily into the clip w/o a tool. The 6th round can be tough, so I usually skip loading that when at the range.
Good reminder.
Even the 45 Night Guards with their stainless steel cylinders (27oz.) have that problem with hot loads. 185gr JHPs are okay until you bump it up to near 45 Super. Heavier bullets sooner.
I like Sierra's 240gr JHC because it has a cannelure which I give a good roll crimp in the 45AR cases.
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325TR
(-09c)
.
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I like their 1/3 (2-round) moon clips.
Load & unload by hand, & they seem pretty durable.
My old commercial 1917 has been reamed for 45 Colt by a previous owner, so moonclips are a must for me to shoot rimless cartridges.
But I do have the additional option of shooting 45 colt.
So I've got that going for me (in my best imitation of Bill Murray as Carl the groundskeeper voice)...
bananaman
Member
You may want to try some RIMZ, poly moon clips for it. NO TOOLS NEEDED for loading & unloading clips! Great for the range. Use them for my JM.
YOU STOLE THAT 1 you know! Congratulations! Bob
SuperMan
Member
OP...you got a great deal to say the least.....
As to the 325s, it is probably the best of the series because of the light weight the others just kick too much. I had the 357 PD and NG and sold both as just too uncomfortable to shoot even with the S&W 500 Hogue grips. With the .45 ACP round you have a nice big bullet going at a moderate velocity...perfect for a light weight gun...
A friend who I am going to visit today is a .45 ACP revolver collector...he has both the 2.5" and 4" PDs. When he carried them he uses CorBon PowR'Ball ammo...lots of speed and a not a lot of recoil.
I've had a number of S&W .45 ACP revolvers over the years and only one would not fire reliably without clips...that was a very early 4" 625. The chambers were very sloppy.
That said most of the rounds I've fired from .45 ACP revolvers have been Auto Rim. Just sold my last one, a Mountain Gun, and don't expect to have any more. I do have one Taurus Tracker in stainless but that one doesn't need moon clips as the ejectors are built into the cylinder...
Have a great time with your now found friend...
Bob
As to the 325s, it is probably the best of the series because of the light weight the others just kick too much. I had the 357 PD and NG and sold both as just too uncomfortable to shoot even with the S&W 500 Hogue grips. With the .45 ACP round you have a nice big bullet going at a moderate velocity...perfect for a light weight gun...
A friend who I am going to visit today is a .45 ACP revolver collector...he has both the 2.5" and 4" PDs. When he carried them he uses CorBon PowR'Ball ammo...lots of speed and a not a lot of recoil.
I've had a number of S&W .45 ACP revolvers over the years and only one would not fire reliably without clips...that was a very early 4" 625. The chambers were very sloppy.
That said most of the rounds I've fired from .45 ACP revolvers have been Auto Rim. Just sold my last one, a Mountain Gun, and don't expect to have any more. I do have one Taurus Tracker in stainless but that one doesn't need moon clips as the ejectors are built into the cylinder...
Have a great time with your now found friend...
Bob
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