327 Federal is the best small revolver cartridge for defense??

I read this whole post (I think) and I don't believe anyone mentioned the one big drawback to using the .327 as a self defense cartridge.

The noise. That high psi cartridge is very loud in my opinion. I even got stopped at the range shooting my SP-101 one day. A curious onlooker couldn't believe the noise that was coming from that little pistol. I wouldn't be surprised if the factory .357 loadings are not as loud as a factory 327 loading.

Consider my findings with the .327 100gr American Eagle load. 14.7 grains of highly compressed powder. You probably aren't going to find a bigger powder charge in a self defense .357 load.

You must have missed my post. I mentioned not only the muzzle blast but the muzzle flash as well. Many of the folks wishing for these guns want a short barrel light weight J frame, which only compounds these problems. Many of those who fire a lightweight J frame in .357, find it to be most unpleasant. Can't imagine the .327 would be much different. I will admit that this pronouncement is purely speculative on my part. Based on my rudimentary knowledge of physics, it's going to remain speculative.
 
To throw fuel on the fire:

It turns out the 100gr JSP, which I had expected to overpenetrate, is possibly the best .327 self defense round.

Note that this test was with a 5.5" Ruger Single Seven:
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from

American Rifleman | Lipsey's Exclusive Ruger Single-Seven .327 Fed. Mag. Revolver
 
I would prefer smaller an lighter rather than 6 instead of 5 shots. I figure if I need to reload my Model 60 I'm not running fast enough.
 
Consider my findings with the .327 100gr American Eagle load. 14.7 grains of highly compressed powder. You probably aren't going to find a bigger powder charge in a self defense .357 load.

My starting load for a 357 mag 158 grain jsp with h110/296 is higher than that. Straight out of several books starting loads. Several of my guns like 16.3 grains.
 
It's not just an issue of auto vs revolver since I don't see the M1911 and .45 ACP as being the standard.

The World had moved on to striker-fired pistols, mainly Glocks and/or their clones and chambered in 9mm... GABE SUAREZ BLOG - A Pistol For the Present Day Gunfighter (Why I carry a Glock)

There's no practical reason for choosing .45 ACP over 9mm and in terms of Worldwide standards, 9X19 is it. Looking at what has the best one shot stop record and there is very little difference between .45, .40, 357 and 9mm, but the top spot is not occupied by .45 ACP.... Handgun Cartridge Power Chart - Condensed Version

In terms of wheelguns, I have little use for large revolvers, but if you are going to reference tactics, an enclosed hammer snub is able to do things in ECQ/extreme close-quarter scenarios that no auto can.

And speaking of reloading, see how many examples you can find where a civilian performed a reload in a self-defense encounter.

If you were to learn gunfight dynamics, you'd know why the 1911-A1 chambered for the .45 ACP is king of self-defense handguns. It's ironic that the 1911-A1 was the first battle handgun that was designed as an offensive weapon; however, it is now primarily defensive. Nothing on the handgun market since its introduction has threatened its supremacy.

Small caliber handguns, including the 9MM, were issued to officers of many militaries not as battle weapons, but as tools to mete out battlefield punishment. Officers didn't need large caliber handguns to kill their own soldiers for sundry battlefield transgressions. The US & Great Britain issued large bore handguns to their miliraries to kill enemy soldiers.

Please stop with the nebulous & neophyte one-shot-stop propaganda. It is neither scientific nor relevant. It's a usless term devoid of intellectualism. Too many hand gunners rely upon entertainment propaganda that was propagated many generations ago. It's never mentioned in professional firearms courses. In fact, the exact opposite is taught: keep shooting until a threat is neutralized.

It is fantasy and agenda to espouse that the 9MM is equal, has even been equal, or will ever equal dominance of the .45 ACP. Elementary physics combined with human biology negate that fantasy.

Striker fired pistols have captured an unknown percentage of the handgun market. They're less expensive to manufacture, which means they're less expensive to purchase, which is beneficial for those on strict budgets who want a self-defense handgun. Whether striker fired handguns have reached peak demand is a guess. I'd guess they have. Striker fired handguns will never threaten the dominance of hammer fired handguns. Striker fired handguns dominate negligent discharges. Eventually, law enforcement agencies that have endeavored to save $$$ by going with less expensive striker fired handguns will revert to hammer fired handguns in order to mitigate liability.

For many reasons, I don't own striker fired handguns. Primarily, I want to be able to glace at a handgun and immediately know its firing condition. And I'm old school, which might just be excellent education. But I'm good with others who've gone striker. After all, they know what best fulfills their self-defense requirements.

Tell me what you think that a any revolver can do at close range that a revolver cannot. If fact, the opposite is true. A semiauto is vastly, by a huge margin, superior to any revolver, especially at close range.

I have no knowledge of why the FBI has gone with the 9MM as its ISSUED handgun cartridge. FBI cops have retained option of carrying other handguns and cartridges approved by the agency. They don't have to carry the agency's issued handgun. My guess is that the preponderance of field cops will carry larger caliber handguns.

I have an excellent theory of why the US Military has gone with the 9MM save elite, specialized units. Modern battle rifles have made battlefield handguns obsolete. I'd much rather carry more magazines for a battle rifle than any handgun.
 
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Given the choice of .327 or .357 I know which one I'd choose, and I'm willing to bet most people will stick with .357.


I think the above thoughts would hold true for most people. So we don't have any worries of 38/357 becoming "obsolete" due to the rise of 327.

I wouldn't mind trying a wheel gun in 327mag, but I wouldn't own one or use one for defense. I'm just a guy that looks at existing, proven calibers as being efficient for my purposes, and none of the "new" stuff will serve me better, so I'm just not interested in it.
 
I think you will find that the FBI load was replaced years ago with the Speer Gold Dot SB +P in every PD that still allows .38 SP to be carried. It has a pretty good record on the street.

You could be right on the money. I will cop to not checking in to evolving .38 Special ammo since I was issue one. Then it was all about the FBI load. But that was 30+ years ago. Hence, I'm sure you're right. Modern technology has subordinated the once highly respected FBI Load.

Do you know whether out of a 2" the Gold Dot load would make much difference?
 
The 32 S&W Long, which is a lower powered round that can be shot in a 327 Federal gun, was used as a police cartridge for decades.

The 32-20, with similar ballistics to the 327 Federal, has been used to take many game animals, and has defended many homes and ranches for decades. It was limited during it's era by having only RNL and RN flat point bullets available.

The 32 ACP, with lighter bullets, was used for years as a military and police cartridge in Europe. Usually with hotter loads (but way less powerful than 327 Federal) than current US 32 ACP offerings.

Don't get me wrong, the 38 special is a great cartridge and won't be obsolete for a long time.

And the 357 Magnum is perhaps the greatest SD revolver cartridge ever.

But I think the best place for the 357 Magnum is in full sized guns with bigger frames and 4" + barrels -- not in small guns like J frame snubs.



Yeah, guess I didn't factor in the small-frame suitability.
 
Tell me what you think that any revolver can do at close range that a semi-automatic cannot. If fact, the opposite is true. A semiauto is vastly, by a huge margin, superior to any revolver, especially at close range.

Well, for one thing it can't go out of battery during a hand to hand struggle.
 
If you were to learn gunfight dynamics, you'd know why the 1911-A1 chambered for the .45 ACP is king of self-defense handguns.

Please stop with the nebulous & neophyte one-shot-stop propaganda. It is neither scientific nor relevant. It's a usless term devoid of intellectualism. Too many hand gunners rely upon entertainment propaganda that was propagated many generations ago. It's never mentioned in professional firearms courses. In fact, the exact opposite is taught: keep shooting until a threat is neutralized.

Tell me what you think that a any revolver can do at close range that a revolver cannot. If fact, the opposite is true. A semiauto is vastly, by a huge margin, superior to any revolver, especially at close range.

Apparently a whole lot of defensive shooting instructors don't understand "gunfight dynamics" since the majority carry 9mm Glocks. Even many of the old school M1911 guys now carry striker-fired 9X19's as much as they do anything else. Times change and smart people change with them.

Comparing one shot stop stats is no different than comparing ballistic gel results. Of course you shoot until the threat is neutralized, looking at OSS data in no way indicates otherwise. It's just another piece of information to help form a more conclusive and fact based opinion of a particular rounds performance, regardless if you fire 1, 2, 10 or 30 shots.

The enclosed hammer revolver is the superior weapon in ECQ/extreme close-range encounters in my opinion. I'm talking contact or Combatives range engagements. It's pretty common to see semi-auto's choke in these scenarios, real world as well as in training.
 
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The noise. That high psi cartridge is very loud in my opinion. I even got stopped at the range shooting my SP-101 one day. A curious onlooker couldn't believe the noise that was coming from that little pistol. I wouldn't be surprised if the factory .357 loadings are not as loud as a factory 327 loading.

I've never shot my LCR .327 in an indoor range and I don't think I'd want to. It's plenty loud and a head turner at the outdoor range I frequent. In a scandium j-frame, I think it would have at least the recoil impulse of the 340/360PD in .357. I used to have a 360 and though I've never shot them side by side, the recoil seems at least as bad as I remember the 360. This is with the full power 100gr. American Eagle.

As long as we're playing "wish they made a _____ in .327," how about a Coonan .327mag? I'm guessing standard mags would hold nine rounds, so it would be 9+1. I think that would be pretty sweet.
 
At one time AMT made a 30 carbine 1911, I believe the carbine round is on par with the 327 at lower pressure. OOOPS my bad, at further look I see it is not a 1911 but an auto mag 30 carbine.

I am not a big Glock fan, but personally I would rather have a 357 sig semi auto over a Coonan. I just don't like the idea of using full rim cartridges in a semi auto. 22 LR is the exception.
 
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You could be right on the money. I will cop to not checking in to evolving .38 Special ammo since I was issue one. Then it was all about the FBI load. But that was 30+ years ago. Hence, I'm sure you're right. Modern technology has subordinated the once highly respected FBI Load.

Do you know whether out of a 2" the Gold Dot load would make much difference?

That's what Speer designed it for
 

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