327 RRT8

Wallace Foster

Wallace Foster

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Howdy, I have been shooting Steel Challenge for 2 years now and started with a 10/22 then switched to my 617 with an Apex hammer and trigger return spring mod and a vortex ccw defender 6moa red dot on a EGW rail I think.

My problem is I want to start using my R8 as well but it needs some work. I am having some issues with the hammer striking (this is a new one)
But first this. I was taking the rail off to install the Allchin Mini scope rail and I broke two torx bits in the screw heads.
Now does S&W sell these screws and replacement rails just in case I butcher it trying to get it off. I thought my bits were better quality steel but boy was I wrong now I want to cry (see pic)
w7XMBvB.jpg

How do I get these out?
Extractor should be easy?
Other ideas....
Second I live in Canada so that might not be the only issue. I had no issue getting orders from TK customs, Speed Beez, Brownell's but other places will not ship here.
 
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I would have heated the screws first assuming Loctite was used .

At this point you might be better and safer to have a a quality gun smith and skilled machinest remove the screws .
 
I would heat the heads of the screws with a propane torch until you can see a wisp of smoke coming off and/or smell the LocTite. Then let it sit and cool to room temp. At that point, the LocTite will be undone, and the Torx bits may come out by turning the gun upside down and rapping the pic rail with a hammer handle. If you get the bits out, you can then undo the screws in the normal way with a new Torx bit.
 
Regarding the broken off Torx bits; I suggest inverting the gun so the broken off bits are pointing down and use a non-marring hammer somewhere on the bottom of the barrel and allow the vibrations from the hammer blows, combined with gravity to allow the broken off bits to fall out. Don't use a lot of force with the hammer blows. It may take many blows to succeed. Just have patience, and the bits should eventually fall out.

Best of luck!


ETA:
I got this posted and saw that Protocol Design had basically beat me to it.

Again, best of luck!
 
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I tried heating them and tapping them, with no luck. I took a time out and installed the spring kit and cylinder release, I am really happy with both. I have a Hogue release on my 617 and it's nice but the jimping on the TC Custom one is really nice.
I am going to see if I have an extractor that will work on those, I also realised that they are not Torx they are Allen bolt pattern... Back to the shop for more parts...:D
ZUoxDyz.jpg
 
Wallace Foster said:
I tried heating them and tapping them, with no luck. I took a time out and installed the spring kit and cylinder release, I am really happy with both. I have a Hogue release on my 617 and it's nice but the jimping on the TC Custom one is really nice.
I am going to see if I have an extractor that will work on those, I also realised that they are not Torx they are Allen bolt pattern... Back to the shop for more parts...:D
ZUoxDyz.jpg
Click to expand...
Two tools missing on your list are a good light source and a magnifier. The will avoid using Torx tools on allan head bolts. INCOMPATIBLE..
 
See if you can use a small punch to gently tap the broken bits in the opposite direction as you were turning them when they broke. They are just wedged in place and once you break the tension they'll come out when you turn it over. Screw extractors like EaseOuts and the like are almost never the answer for gun screw problems. They work okay on big bolts in dozer tracks and tractor parts but 99 percent of the time make the problem worse with small screws. Plus the hardened extractors are very easy to break and then they're lodged in the hole.

If you absolutely cannot get the screws to break loose after you've removed the broken bits it will be probably a milling machine operation to get them out without ruining the rest of the gun. If you can get the bits out and get another wrench to fit snugly, even if you have to hammer a slightly larger Torx into place sacrificing the screws, and then as stated above use some heat from a propane torch the screws are secured with LocTite.
 
Catwrangler said:
Two tools missing on your list are a good light source and a magnifier. The will avoid using Torx tools on allan head bolts. INCOMPATIBLE..
Click to expand...

I grabbed my head lamp today and used it while putting in the spring kit. I do need a good magnifier, I am forever taking pics of things and looking at them.
 
Wallace Foster

To bad you missed the tip type needed to remove the screws to begin with . Caulk it up to one more of those live and learn life experiences .
 
Use heat to loosen LocTite. Rather than a torch, I suggest using a soldering iron. There's less possibility of damage, and more than enough heat.
 
The way I did it, when I stripped it , was to drill the tops of those screws to get the rail off. Thereby releasing the tension on the screw and just used my fingers to unscrew it off. ( or pliers.....memory is fuzzy).

Those screws are tapered , as is the way they sit in that metal rail. I just guesstimated the depth without taking too much material in the rail. Once the rail was off, I was able to unscrew the 'stub' that was left on there. ..

It doesn't take much to seize tight those screws on there. I had mentioned before( another thread) not to use much force on them as they will stay stuck and probably let you strip the head and or bit. Or break the bit.

And of course, I advise not using that top rail and anything attached on top of it as it will unscrew the barrel from the frame. And that, happened to me twice! So , I would know.

The black screws if I remember aren't the Teflon coated ones, but the silver screws have a Teflon strip on them. And again, do not tighten them too much. They don't need alot of muscle.
Threadlocker should not be used .
The silver screws are used when the top rail isn't mounted to not let dirt or anything in those top holes in. I also suspect because they touch the barrel, that when tight, they also prevent the barrel from unscrewing.
 
Got watch out for low quality torgs and allens . They can twist or snap way to easily . I bought a chapman mfg gunsmith set some years ago and they have held up very well .
 
It would be worth a try to use a dental pick to go down the spline of the Tork bit and "Grip" the broken bit and pull out. That is how I get broken keys out of locks.

Ivan
 
I got it out and used my Wile E. Coyote Gunsmithing Certificate to do it.
I used a cutting disc on my dremel and cut a slot big enough to get a bite wit a slotted screwdriver. I tried drilling them, I didn't see the post here but I tried to do what was posted and couldn't drill it. That is when the dremel came out.
Here it is with the rail and Vortex Venom 6MOA
A8h4DWr.jpg
 
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