So I recently picked up a 329 pd for a hunting sidearm. I never planned on shooting this weapon much but I decided to get familiar while shooting it. So I have ran around 400 rds of 240 grain PPU jhp through it over 3 trips to the range. While I was cleaning it today I noticed some weird wear in a short amount of time what do you all think?
329pd cylinder erosion?
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Welcome! The photo has the appearance of lead residue from firing, but if that is actual erosion into the cylinder face I would contact factory customer service for advice. The Ti alloy cylinders have a protective coating on them to prevent/retard this from happening, but if a previous owner removed it with abrasive cleaning that would explain the damage. It has also been noted to occur with unscrubbed cylinders, however, and fortunately replacement cylinders are still available.
If you shot 400 full power .44 Magnum loads through in 3 sessions, you are quite the determined shooter! Hope this is helpful.
If you shot 400 full power .44 Magnum loads through in 3 sessions, you are quite the determined shooter! Hope this is helpful.
SLT223
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The finish on the frame under the forcing cone appears o be actual finish removal. That's from the crane clipping the frame on closure. I've sen the same on blued guns made over the past 70 years.
The face of the cylinder appears to be lead. I personally wouldn't know for sure if it's lead of finish wear unless I scrubbed i myself.
The face of the cylinder appears to be lead. I personally wouldn't know for sure if it's lead of finish wear unless I scrubbed i myself.
OP
I am the only owner just purchased about 9 months ago it's not lead I scrubbed it real well and if you take a fingernail and rub it you can feel the indentations
thanks for the advice I will take this up with smith&wesson.
thanks for the advice I will take this up with smith&wesson.
muddocktor
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Yeah, that's definitely looking like flame cutting erosion to me, not any kind of lead deposition. If so, and weight isn't a big factor, you might ask S&W to replace it with a stainless steel cylinder instead of another titanium cylinder when they replace it. The stainless cylinder won't develop that problem.
That's definitely erosion. My 340PD did the same thing with 125gr Hornady, even though the disclaimer only mentions 120gr. It looked just like yours. Call Smith, they will replace it under warranty.
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Cylinder face erosion
Yes, you've got flame cutting--much as I love the PDs, they were design failures, and are unfit for their intended purpose. I went through three titanium cylinders despite careful ammo selection before I had them put a stainless steel cylinder in--which does add more ounces than I like. I later picked up a second PD, thinking I'd keep it pristine and only shoot a couple cylinders to sight it in--and then had flame cutting in the FIRST SIX ROUNDS. I still carry as my snake gun, but dare not use it with any magnum rounds. Not happy with S&W on this one (though I confess I love my .380 Bodyguards, but that's a different story....)
Yes, you've got flame cutting--much as I love the PDs, they were design failures, and are unfit for their intended purpose. I went through three titanium cylinders despite careful ammo selection before I had them put a stainless steel cylinder in--which does add more ounces than I like. I later picked up a second PD, thinking I'd keep it pristine and only shoot a couple cylinders to sight it in--and then had flame cutting in the FIRST SIX ROUNDS. I still carry as my snake gun, but dare not use it with any magnum rounds. Not happy with S&W on this one (though I confess I love my .380 Bodyguards, but that's a different story....)
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OP, your revolver does exhibit the beginnings of flame cutting and cylinder erosion. I recommend getting the cylinder replaced under warranty and then buying a stainless cylinder for range time. IF you decide to carry it, and you are worried about a few oz, thr cylinder swap is pretty easy.
Hope this helps
SVT28
Hope this helps
SVT28
michpatriot
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Cleaning
Could you post a accurate description of your cleaning procedure? Also what cleaners you were using?The reason I ask is other than the obvious damage...the cylinder face looks real clean.
This is a real bummer of a problem with ti cylinders, I own two that are good so far. I work extensively welding titanium and I am familiar with its properties, one thing I never do with mine is shoot them till their smoking hot, sounds silly right? Superalloy it is, Unbreakable it is not..titanium becomes extremely sensitive to oxidization when you get it hot. I don't do speed reloads, and usually just let it cool down a little between strings of fire. Titanium forms a surface oxide layer that grows for up to four years, this layer helps protect it from further oxide growth and is one of the real advantages it has in certain applications. If you constantly remove this naturally occurring oxide layer you are in effect giving the surface a new place to reoxidize, the constant violent flame application in the cylinder gap is a perfect storm of conditions for titanium to break down if the user is not very careful. I try not to help this process, by not removing anything from the cylinder face, my cylinder gap hovers between .003 to .004 and if it ever starts to have contact with the barrel face/forcing cone I'll be surprised, the same blast that can ruin titanium does a fine job of self cleaning the carbon buildup and keeping the gap clear of debris. Maybe S&W dropped the ball by not explaining the properties and ginger care needed with titanium cylinders....or maybe they gambled a little on the PD line, profit margin to the prediction that most users of the Scandium/Titanium line might not shoot them a lot, not shoot them like a more robust heavy stainless model. But some have tough hands and a strong will to wring them out and shoot em hard so here we are. My guess is that the profit margin is high enough that warranty work is not a worry for S&W on titanium erosion, probably only a few percent go back out of the thousands made.
Could you post a accurate description of your cleaning procedure? Also what cleaners you were using?The reason I ask is other than the obvious damage...the cylinder face looks real clean.
This is a real bummer of a problem with ti cylinders, I own two that are good so far. I work extensively welding titanium and I am familiar with its properties, one thing I never do with mine is shoot them till their smoking hot, sounds silly right? Superalloy it is, Unbreakable it is not..titanium becomes extremely sensitive to oxidization when you get it hot. I don't do speed reloads, and usually just let it cool down a little between strings of fire. Titanium forms a surface oxide layer that grows for up to four years, this layer helps protect it from further oxide growth and is one of the real advantages it has in certain applications. If you constantly remove this naturally occurring oxide layer you are in effect giving the surface a new place to reoxidize, the constant violent flame application in the cylinder gap is a perfect storm of conditions for titanium to break down if the user is not very careful. I try not to help this process, by not removing anything from the cylinder face, my cylinder gap hovers between .003 to .004 and if it ever starts to have contact with the barrel face/forcing cone I'll be surprised, the same blast that can ruin titanium does a fine job of self cleaning the carbon buildup and keeping the gap clear of debris. Maybe S&W dropped the ball by not explaining the properties and ginger care needed with titanium cylinders....or maybe they gambled a little on the PD line, profit margin to the prediction that most users of the Scandium/Titanium line might not shoot them a lot, not shoot them like a more robust heavy stainless model. But some have tough hands and a strong will to wring them out and shoot em hard so here we are. My guess is that the profit margin is high enough that warranty work is not a worry for S&W on titanium erosion, probably only a few percent go back out of the thousands made.
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I'd contact S&W. They should send you a call tag for return at their expense. Who knows why? It seems odd to me that only 3 of 6 chambers are affected.
Over the years, I've had 3 329s (still have 2) and have shot 8,000 or 9,000 rounds total thru the three (over 95% mostly A2400 with some H110). Had various problems that required a return to the factory for repair. I never had a problem with cylinder face erosion as shown in your picture.
Who knows why this happened. It could be a factory defect of some kind (uneven ti coating maybe). Could also be related to your cleaning method or products, or even have something to do with the powder used in the PPU ammo.
Here's a picture of a cylinder with a lot of rounds (don't remember exactly how many) -- this is the way all three guns look(ed).
May be an inconvenience, but S&W should take care of your problem.
Over the years, I've had 3 329s (still have 2) and have shot 8,000 or 9,000 rounds total thru the three (over 95% mostly A2400 with some H110). Had various problems that required a return to the factory for repair. I never had a problem with cylinder face erosion as shown in your picture.
Who knows why this happened. It could be a factory defect of some kind (uneven ti coating maybe). Could also be related to your cleaning method or products, or even have something to do with the powder used in the PPU ammo.
Here's a picture of a cylinder with a lot of rounds (don't remember exactly how many) -- this is the way all three guns look(ed).
May be an inconvenience, but S&W should take care of your problem.
michpatriot
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How do you clean?
What's your cleaning procedure consist of? In the near future I'm going to purchase a 329PD for a hunting sidearm and I guess another set of dies for the Dillon.
I'd contact S&W. They should send you a call tag for return at their expense. Who knows why? It seems odd to me that only 3 of 6 chambers are affected.
Over the years, I've had 3 329s (still have 2) and have shot 8,000 or 9,000 rounds total thru the three (over 95% mostly A2400 with some H110). Had various problems that required a return to the factory for repair. I never had a problem with cylinder face erosion as shown in your picture.
Who knows why this happened. It could be a factory defect of some kind (uneven ti coating maybe). Could also be related to your cleaning method or products, or even have something to do with the powder used in the PPU ammo.
Here's a picture of a cylinder with a lot of rounds (don't remember exactly how many) -- this is the way all three guns look(ed).
May be an inconvenience, but S&W should take care of your problem.
What's your cleaning procedure consist of? In the near future I'm going to purchase a 329PD for a hunting sidearm and I guess another set of dies for the Dillon.
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Only cleaned when functioning effected. Don't care about stains and no attempt to remove them. Only remove "crud" impeding proper function. Minimal use of bronze brush and CLP.
Added:
After each shooting session, wiped off buildup on firing pin bushing, ratchet cutout, and face of cyl with paper towel and CLP (if necessary). Lubed with CLP and put away.
Paul
Added:
After each shooting session, wiped off buildup on firing pin bushing, ratchet cutout, and face of cyl with paper towel and CLP (if necessary). Lubed with CLP and put away.
Paul
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Bronze brush is the likely culprit here.
My TI cylinders see nothing but Mpro 7 and cloth with sometimes a kiss with a soft nylon brush.
My TI cylinders see nothing but Mpro 7 and cloth with sometimes a kiss with a soft nylon brush.
Here's some "cleaning" directions from current S&W Owners Manual regarding Titanum cylinders.
http://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sit...-manuals/S&W_Revolver_051517_416560000_WC.pdf
CAUTION: Revolvers with Titanium-alloy cylinders
• Titanium alloy cylinders weigh approximately 60% of what a similarly sized stainless steel cylinder weighs and yet is able to withstand the same operating pressures. Care and cleaning of the revolver's titanium alloy cylinder consists of normal gun cleaning procedures using high quality gun oil and cleaning solvents when necessary. However, under NO circumstances should the cylinder's chambers (charge holes) or front face be cleaned with an abrasive material such as sand paper, Scotch Brite™, Crocus Cloth, etc. To do so will disrupt it's protective surface layer and greatly reduce the cylinder's service life because of excessive erosion that will take place while firing and will void your revolver's warranty.
Per TARROWMAN's post above, it's best to tread lightly.
FWIW,
Paul
http://snwcdnprod.azureedge.net/sit...-manuals/S&W_Revolver_051517_416560000_WC.pdf
CAUTION: Revolvers with Titanium-alloy cylinders
• Titanium alloy cylinders weigh approximately 60% of what a similarly sized stainless steel cylinder weighs and yet is able to withstand the same operating pressures. Care and cleaning of the revolver's titanium alloy cylinder consists of normal gun cleaning procedures using high quality gun oil and cleaning solvents when necessary. However, under NO circumstances should the cylinder's chambers (charge holes) or front face be cleaned with an abrasive material such as sand paper, Scotch Brite™, Crocus Cloth, etc. To do so will disrupt it's protective surface layer and greatly reduce the cylinder's service life because of excessive erosion that will take place while firing and will void your revolver's warranty.
Per TARROWMAN's post above, it's best to tread lightly.
FWIW,
Paul
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I gather you write with your off hand between sessions
100 rounds from a steel .44 Magnum would be way too much "fun" for me, much less a 25 oz lightweight.If you replace the cylinder, consider one made of stainless steel, not titanium. It will bring the weight up to between 32 and 35 oz, which I find manageable, if not exactly comfortable. That's still less than a Mountain Gun (42 oz), if a few ounces count when hunting.
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IMO, putting a stainless cylinder in a 329pd is an indication of dementia onset.
A person buys a 329pd precisely because it is a packing pistol that S&W stands behind fully.
Call S&W, they typically turn revolvers around in under two weeks at no cost to you.
A person buys a 329pd precisely because it is a packing pistol that S&W stands behind fully.
Call S&W, they typically turn revolvers around in under two weeks at no cost to you.
I have sent my 329PD back to the factory twice now for top strap shield replacement. The turn around time was very quick, less than 2 weeks!
Last Wed, 8/2/17, I sent my mdl 69 back for rework due to failing to carry up and overall rough operation. I only hope I get it back as quickly as my 329PD's. By the way, ever since I've been occasionally applying J-B Weld to the cut that appears on my 329PD's top strap shield, I haven't had to send mine back for replacement. Others have not had such success. Me wonders why?
Last Wed, 8/2/17, I sent my mdl 69 back for rework due to failing to carry up and overall rough operation. I only hope I get it back as quickly as my 329PD's. By the way, ever since I've been occasionally applying J-B Weld to the cut that appears on my 329PD's top strap shield, I haven't had to send mine back for replacement. Others have not had such success. Me wonders why?
