329PD Kaboom pics (new pic in post 1)

[davidenorth]

Another shooter found two dented rounds at my CCW qualification shoot last week. Now, they were just bought prior to the shoot from the local gun store hosting the class.

 

[2hawk]

After each of the first few shots, I took a look at the top strap. ...

I'll bet! I just hope this hasn't scared you off the gun, but you seem like you're doing well with it.

I handload/ reload, and have been doing so for going on 20 years. The ability to have better loads and higher quality control than what I can buy in a store for just a fraction of the price is what got me hooked.

I recently sent a revolver back to S&W for a problem that I couldn't quite track down, it is a 681 and seemed to have an occassional binding in the action. I made mention of the loads I was using (reloads of mine) when corresponding with the techs, and no mention was made of the ammunition by them one way or the other.

So I think that while the possibility of having a manufacturer kick out a warranty claim because of reloaded ammo exists, my feeling is that if you have loaded sane and sensible rounds, any maker worth their salt will be ok with it.

Commercial ammo has certainly had it's qc problems from time to time, so that's not a protection against an incident. I know the gun makers do want to avoid claims from people making grenades out of their guns, but so far I haven't felt like I need to conceal my use of reloads.

'Course, I haven't experienced anything as spectacular as what happened to you


Stay Safe!

 

[Slufstuff]

Welcome to the board JBob. To answer your question, I found the pictures and a post describing the incident posted on another gun board, and thought they would be of interest here. I had the impression from the original post, that they were taken and written up by the person who took the pictures, who stated he was not the owner. I do not have a link to that post, but I think it was on AR15.com.

 

[JBob]

Welcome to the board JBob. To answer your question, I found the pictures and a post describing the incident posted on another gun board, and thought they would be of interest here. I had the impression from the original post, that they were taken and written up by the person who took the pictures, who stated he was not the owner. I do not have a link to that post, but I think it was on AR15.com.

It probably was the other photographer - we shared our photo sets with each other.

 

[JBob]

I would not be so fast to condemn handloaders. For every 1 person determined to make a 44 Special into a 44 Magnum, there are hundreds who practice safe, conservative reloading. I have never been shy about informing manufacturers about loadings and problems I have encountered, in one case I ended up speaking with the company technical department several times until we tracked down the problem- and it had nothing to do with ammunition, but rather cleaning method.

So, I think that a blanket refusal to honor the warranty of any gun firing a single round of reloaded ammo is unreasonable. The manufacturer can usually tell of over pressure ammo is at fault.

I in no way meant to imply anything negative about hand loading except for the warranty statements. Your experience with discussing hand loading with the gun mfg. is exactly what I was looking for. Was the mfg. S&W? What other companies have been OK in practice with using hand-loaded ammo?

The warranty statements are clear; whether or not they're reasonable irrelevant; it gives an easy out to the manufacturer. I hoped actual policies were more reasonable. Your message seems to confirm that hope.

 

[surveyor47]

In years past I have discussed loads with Ruger, Thompson Center, Browning and S&W. Ruger and Thompson Center were the most receptive, particlarly T/C, given the fact that some calibers offered by T/C can only be obtained by reloading.

Ruger doesnt seem to have a problem, except when it comes to "Ruger Only loads", which they said they would like to eliminate entirely. They have Blackhawks, Bisleys and Vaqqueros by the same name on 2 different frame sizes, thus introducing a real elemnet of doubt.

Browning said that they dont like handloading, because it accelerates wear on guns, due to excessive round count.

S&W seems to be touchiest of the lot, particularly lately. Their guns seem prone to timing, ejector rod and other loose screw issues right out of the box and seem happy to unload the problem onto the customer if given the excuse. In years past, I have discussed loads extensively with their techs, but not lately. Successful repair at S&W seems related to finding the "right guy" at S&W. I have a 57 Mountain Gun that could not go 100 rounds between failures and it spent most of its first 2 years at S&W, failing on the first range session after repair. I finally made a wager with the "right guy": If he could fire more than 100 rounds of full power ammo through that gun and not produce a failure, I would pay for all repairs and shipping to date- if not he would replace or refund the gun. The gun returned 3 months later and has worked like a charm ever since, one of my all time favorites.

 

[dla]

Normally I get annoyed at reopened old threads, but in this case much needed info was provided to a puzzling failure.

I own a 329pd and like it. I've pumped a little over 1K rounds of handloads through it. I've sent it back to S&W twice and the last time they replaced the barrel and cylinder. I've been very pleased with their service - they've never once asked me about handloads. I don't try to load for armor-plated grizzlies, so I don't feel I over-stress my revolver.

I've never been afraid of a KABOOM because the revolver seems to fail in a safe manner, and I always wear eye protection (blind as a bat). I did find it very informative that the 2 shots prior to the failure went astray - indicating imminent frame failure. That's something I will remember.

 

[JSR III]

Very glad to hear that you are OK and that S&W made it right. In looking at the photos, there is a boatload of spent cases on the ground in front of the bench. What happens to the empties? Is this a private gun club or a shooting range or what? Just curious.

Every time I go to my gun club range I come home looking like a chipmunk with empty brass bulging from every pocket. I haven't reloaded in a bunch of years, but I have all of the stuff necessary when I go back to it.

 

[Paul105]

I've had some experience with S&W Customer Service and a lot of it related to several 329s. I've sent 3 of them back for various repairs more than a few times. Once for the same thing that happened to JBob (same explanation – barrel over torqued – they replaced the gun). The last time, the rep's initial response was "that just can't happen" and queried me about the loads I was using. I explained that indeed it did happen and it wasn't the first time and that I was using standard .44 Mag loads.. He asked me for the serial number, which he obviously input into the computer and immediately replied he would send prepaid shipping info. I informed him I also had a second 329 with the same problem – he asked for the serial number and gave prepaid shipping info. I've delt with various S&W customer service reps and this guy was the most obnoxious. I've yet to deal with a service rep that thought they were dealing with someone that had a clue.

They'll make it right, but sometimes it takes a little effort.

FWIW,

Paul

 

[DonD]

I've mentioned a couple times on this forum that I have a long standing email and phone relationship with one of S&W's engineers. His recent work has been the .500 Mag, 1911s and now the ARs.

He knows quite well that I shoot only reloads in my .500s and could care less.

I think the only way the issue of a reload would come up would be if the damage to the gun was a very clear case of overpressure and you told them it was a reload. Even then, I suspect that they might replace it as a customer satisfaction effort. Might be wrong. Don

 

[JBob]

...I've been very pleased with their service - they've never once asked me about handloads.

... I did find it very informative that the 2 shots prior to the failure went astray - indicating imminent frame failure. That's something I will remember.

Only one shot went astray, then the kaboom shot was 'wild' in that it missed the paper.

Thanks for the info on warranty vs. hand loading.

 

[JBob]

In looking at the photos, there is a boatload of spent cases on the ground in front of the bench. What happens to the empties? Is this a private gun club or a shooting range or what? Just curious.

It's the Front Range Gun Club in Loveland, CO. It's acceptable to collect your own brass but in general the club uses it as a revenue source.

 

[Fritz007]

JBob, I did drop a comment under
How to Shear Your Scandium .44 Mag Revolver in Half Daily Bulletin

Ruger got it right in the first place:

The center pin in the LCR's ejector rod and the front latch insert in the shroud are each made of titanium, to reduce their mass and inertia--thereby ensuring that the cylinder stays locked, even under recoil. Both these parts ate spring-loaded, and when the gun moves backward in recoil, those springs compress. High-speed photographic analysis of the LCR when it is fired revealed that a steel center pin and latch insert has sufficient mass/inertia at rest to unlock fully, allowing the cylinder assembly to be momentarily "unlatched" at the exact instant that the weapon is fired. Using lightweight titanium for those parts prevents that from happening. (Titanium's low inertia is why it has long been used for firearms parts that do not need to resist moving in a hurry--such as firing pins on fast lock-time rifles.)

A brand-new spin: Ruger's revolutionary lightweight carry revolver brings polymer to the wheelgun world. - Free Online Library

JBob, your gun exposes these marks. So does mine, so do many which are shot with real magnum loads. There is more evidence that this unlocking happens.

And: Smith & Wesson doesn't address the problem. They even don't answer written inquiries.


Paul105, slightly OT, your load of about 15grs of LilGun behind a 180grs bullet qualifies for immediate cylinder erosion. Did shot it in my SC340 and it virtually burnt the cylinder. Same rule as the "don't use 110grs bullets in mangum loads" applies to heavier bullets with very progressive powders.

Edit: The centerpin of the S&W is indeed an lightweight alloy. Weighs about half of the "normal" ones. So only the center pin spring and the fact that it is on the short sight can play a role.

 

[Nframe357]

It still amazes me that so many folks run out and plop down $ for a new Smith????