.35 rifle bullets for a .357

[dixiedawg119]

I'm not a reloader yet, but I like to read about it and study the midway usa catalog. I was wondering the other day. Has anyone loaded a .35 rifle bullet in .357 cases? The .35 is actually .358"(the same size as cast lead bullets for a .357), and comes in weights from 180 gr to over 300 gr. I've never seen anything over 180 gr in a reloading manual for the .357. My guess is that it might result in pressures that were too high, but I wondered if anyone had thoughts on it. If you could get it to work, seems like it might make a good short range hog round, or that all important bear-stopping round everyone is lookin' for.

 

[dixiedawg119]

I'm not a reloader yet, but I like to read about it and study the midway usa catalog. I was wondering the other day. Has anyone loaded a .35 rifle bullet in .357 cases? The .35 is actually .358"(the same size as cast lead bullets for a .357), and comes in weights from 180 gr to over 300 gr. I've never seen anything over 180 gr in a reloading manual for the .357. My guess is that it might result in pressures that were too high, but I wondered if anyone had thoughts on it. If you could get it to work, seems like it might make a good short range hog round, or that all important bear-stopping round everyone is lookin' for.

 

[Ernie L]

an over sized jacketed bullet is not going to work out..at least not more than once.

non jacketed over sized lead bullets will of course swag themselves to the bore diameter..over sized within reason of course

 

[Hillbilly Jim]

Dang I learn something every day. I did not know 358 bullets were over size. I guess I cant load any more 358 180's in my 357 Max. Has worked for some years so I guess now I will hafto change.
I tried heavier bullets but accuracy was downhill. Twist was probably not right.

 

[m1gunner]

Colt 357 magnums generally run a .356 bore as opposed to S&W's bore of .357

You could always just swage your oversized bullets down to .357 if you were really worried about it.

 

[lafayne]

I doubt that the heavier (longer) bullets will stabilize.

 

[scattershot]

...and I doubt that the velocity from such a load would be sufficient to expand the bullet. I have seen references to .357/,358 lead bullets up to 195 grains for handguns in some of the older manuals, though.

Now, using lead pistol bullets in a .35 caliber rifle has some merit for plinking and small game.

 

[Paul5388]

I've shot from 250 gr to 125 gr in my .357 Mag rifle. The heaviest jacketed bullet was a 220 gr and it didn't have any problems stabilizing out of a 1 in 18" twist barrel.

The OAL of most jacketed rifle bullets is too long for revolver use, or you have to seat it too deep to get much powder in the case.

I actually used .360 DW brass on these longer cases, but the rest are .357 Mag.

This isn't a very good picture, but the .358" jacketed bullets are easy to spot.

This is a 180 & 250 gr in .360 DW brass with a 250 gr in .357 brass compared to a .44 Mag on the far right.

Those 180 gr XTPs shoot like this at 100 yards.

Here's how 250 gr shoots at 100 yards, but the load is 13.0 gr, not 13.0 g.

Did I mention the rifle is a cheap 22" Handi rifle?

 

[dixiedawg119]

wow, thanks for all the input. I've got a 6" 686 so I was thinkin' more along the lines of loading for a revolver. It makes sense that they would end up being too long. I guess it would be gettin' a little greedy to try to add more versatility to a .38/.357.

I'd heard Colt's generally slower than Smith's, makes sense if they are bored a thousandth smaller.

So is the general consensus that anything over 180 gr won't stabilize out of a .357 revo?

 

[Paul5388]

I think the twist in a revolver is 1 in 18", just like in the Handi rifle.

It seems like there was a thread recently on a 200 gr in .357 mag?

 

[Dan Cash]

Originally posted by dixiedawg119:
wow, thanks for all the input. I've got a 6" 686 so I was thinkin' more along the lines of loading for a revolver. It makes sense that they would end up being too long. I guess it would be gettin' a little greedy to try to add more versatility to a .38/.357.

I'd heard Colt's generally slower than Smith's, makes sense if they are bored a thousandth smaller.

So is the general consensus that anything over 180 gr won't stabilize out of a .357 revo?

I have used a lot of 200 grain cast (from RCBS mould) in .38 and .357 cartridges. Accuracy from a 6" 27 is adequate, from a 4" 28, 2 1/2 inch 19, 2" 10 and a pair of 642s is very good to excellent at ranges to 40 yards or so. I have not tried the snub guns that far out. I load the .357s to +- 950 and the .38s to a bit over 650. Don't let the low .38 velocity fool you as that slug will poke quite a hole in meat.
Dan

 

[Ernie L]

Dang I learn something every day. I did not know 358 bullets were over size. I guess I cant load any more 358 180's in my 357 Max.

Join the club...I had no idea people reloaded with over sized jacketed bullets as you (and others) apparently do.

 

[Paul5388]

I had no idea people reloaded with over sized jacketed bullets as you (and others) apparently do.

Maybe you need to slug his barrel before you determine the jacketed rifle bullets are over sized.

I've seen Super Vel jacketed bullets for .38, not 9mm, that were only .3565" and .356". Were they undersized?

The 250 gr lead bullet I posted a group from are sized at .359", is that over sized?

Many people load the Hornady 180 gr SSP in their .35 Rem, it's a .357" bullet, not a .358".

 

[Ernie L]

Maybe you need to slug his barrel before you determine the jacketed rifle bullets are over sized.

hmm..let me think...the OP stated the .35 jacketed rifle bullet is actually .358....no I don't think I need to slug his barrel to say that's over sized for a 357 bore revolver.
which is quite normal for a lead bullet...yes..for a jacketed bullet I'm not so sure...I had always understood that situation could lead to dangerous pressure level.(shrug)

I understand your point about not assuming bore and bullet diameter. Given the example you cited ..no of course that's not over sized. I guess we have to agree on the definition of over/under size...anything that deviates from the standard bore size..yes ?
I do have a micrometer, and given what you said about some of your findings I will be checking some bullets I have just to see what's what.
Any way this old dog did manage to learn something and that's always a good thing.

regards.

 

[Paul5388]

You might also remember, what's marked on the box isn't necessarily what's in the box.

It's the same way with nominal sizes for barrels. They're supposed to be .357" barrels, but due to wear on the cutting tool, they are seldom exactly what they're supposed to be from one barrel to the next.

There are means for increasing velocity, or conversely reducing velocity, by varying the diameter of the bullet. Lee Jurras was able to get more velocity with his Super Vel by using a slightly smaller bullet.

The rifling style also has a bearing on what sizes you can effectively use. The Handi rifle has shallow grooves that border on being micro-groove, which doesn't engrave in the jacket as much as more traditional grooved barrels.

I don't remember the OAL of the .357 brass with .358" bullets, but I don't believe they can be crimped at a short enough length to fit in a revolver's cylinder.

Another consideration is the jacket material being heavier on the .358" bullets, since they are intended for rifle velocities. I doubt they would provide anything more than what ball ammunition is capable of producing.