357 cartridges won't go completely into cylinder

[skrazo]

Another "newbie" question. I reloaded 50 rounds of 357 today. 158 gr LSWCs. At about 1/8" to 3/16" from being fully seated in the gun cylinder, four cartridges would not seat completely. The cases looked slightly bulged where the bullet was seated. I removed the bullets & powder, resized the brass (nickel), installed primers and powder. They were better, but still were "tight" at the "final seat" position in the cylinder. I am pretty sure they are not "over crimped", but not positive. Help please. I'm frustrated.

 

[ronnie gore]

357

try scrubbing out the chambers with a bronze brush, someone may have fired a lot of 38 special out of it causing a carbon ring in the chamber, I had that occur on a model 19 I traded for. after cleaning very well everything chambers fine.

 

[klausinak]

OP-
Another couple of possibles:

Bullets are too large in diameter, or
Brass is too long (generally not the issue, but worth a check)

Too much crimp will bulge your brass as well.

 

[David R]

Ronnie gore got it. First step clean it.

Find a drawing of your cartridge and measure it.

David

 

[brucev]

As mentioned earlier, first step is to make sure the charge holes of the cylinder are all clean. If they are not nice and shiny, brush with a bronze cleaning brush. Another method is to take some of the copper strands from a Chore Boy cleaning pad and wrap these around a old worn brush. Chuck the brush up in a electric drill and use it to clean/polish the inside of each charge hole on the cylinder. It is possible that there is some build up in the cylinder from shooting .38 Special ammo. If so, the above method will get it out. Using a little Hoppes No. 9 will make things work better.

After cleaning the cylinder, see if your reloaded ammunition will chamber. If so, cool. If not, it's time for a little comparison. Take a loaded factory round and compare it to your reloaded ammunition. Use a caliper to measure the diameter of your round and compare it to the factory round measuring at the bullet, immediately behind the crimp, about midway of the body of the case and just in front of the rim. There is the possibility that your dies are not sizing the body of the fired casing down enough to all it to easily chamber. As stated above, there is the possibility that there is a problem with an odd sized bullet or brass that needs trimming.

Occasionally I've had problems chambering a round of .357 Magnum ammunition. It almost always ended up being the result of a build up of grease residue in the charge holes that resulted from having fired a lot of .38 Special ammunition. HTH. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[MichiganScott]

Common with lead bullets. They are usually .358-.359 as opposed to the .357" jacketed bullets will measure. Toss some tumble lube on the lead and you are easily over .360". Add thicker than usual brass, or sometimes even normal brass, and they becomes difficult to chamber.

 

[Florida J Frame]

Try scrubbing the charge holes with a .45 Cal bronze brush and some solvent.

 

[Buford57]

Several good suggestions. Here's another to consider: if, in fact, you have either overcrimped or buckled the case slightly, a Lee factory crimp die can "iron" the case. I overcrimped a batch of .38 wadcutter loads a few months ago and they similarly stopped just short of seating. The Lee dies cured it without disassembling the rounds.

 

[riverrat38]

You can chamber an empty case, and make sure case length is not a problem.
I have found the Lee FCD to help, as in post #8.

Best,
Rick

 

[skrazo]

I forgot to mention:
1) I'm using Lee dies. Have a separate set for 38 and another for 357.
2) Using bullets from the same box for both 38 & 357.
3) Have never had any problem with the 38s. Probably loaded & fired about 2000 rounds.
4) With the 357, have probably loaded and fired about 500 rounds.
5) The 357 brass is nickel plated. It seems a lot more sensitive to sizing, seating, etc. Was going to just buy 100 pcs of "brass" brass, but cannot find any.

I'll follow up on the above suggestions and post back my results. It will be 2 or 3 weeks before I get another chance to shoot. Thanks for the replies so far.

 

[BSA1]

Picture will help. The first I would check is over crimping. Are you crimping the brass into the crimp groove on the bullet? Try backing off the crimp.

 

[skrazo]

Picture will help. The first I would check is over crimping. Are you crimping the brass into the crimp groove on the bullet? Try backing off the crimp.

I don't have any pics. Do crimp at the cannilures(sp?). One thing that makes this frustrating is only a few cartridges have the problem(4 in 50, typical). I have experimented with different amount of crimp. One thought I have is just to keep the non-seating cartridges separate and not reload them, keep using the cases that do not bulge, and try to determine if the same cases are having problems each time I reload. Could be some cases with weak walls.

I don't think the bullets are faulty because I have "never" had this problem with 38s (using same bullets).

Whew! Time for bed.

 

[riverrat38]

I stopped using nickel plated cases, due to the large amount of force I was needing to seat the copper plated bullets. I was getting distortion (bulging) in some of the bullets. The problem seemed greatest with plated wad cutters.

Best,
Rick

 

[Nevada Ed]

Since most of your loads chamber I would say your cylinder is ok......

I would bet that the Nickel cases are just a little thicker, which is normal and would cause the
over all diameter to be just enough to cause a snug fit at the very end of your cylinder that is not smooth
from firing 38 cases, powder burning and maybe a little lead build up.

Just mark the cases so you know next time you load them, what to expect.

Good shooting.

 

[WR Moore]

I forgot to mention:
1) I'm using Lee dies. Have a separate set for 38 and another for 357.

Besides scrubbing the chambers, double check the neck expanding/case flaring adjustment on your .357 dies.

I'd also double check the adjustment on your sizing die just to be sure.

 

[LtBlue425]

Over the years I've run into some situations where the brass was thicker. Add the larger diameter cast bullets and you get a real tight fit. I haven't run into any thick cases in a long time. Back when I did have this problem I'd run the loaded cartridge into the sizer a little bit at a time until it chambered. Then after firing I tossed that brass.
Should add that I marked the thick ones.

 

[MichiganScott]

Try measuring the cartridges that don't chamber. If you don't have calipers and/or micrometers, you need them.

 

[SMSgt]

Break those four down and toss the cases. It's not enough to worry about.

 

[mikld]

Troubleshooting tip; When sumpin' don't fit, measure! Basically a cartridge is a peg, and a chamber is a hole. For the peg (cartridge) to go into the hole (chamber) it must be smaller than the hole (chamber). Sometimes we complicate things a bit too much. Measure the offending rounds at the case mouth, mid-way down the body, and at the case head. Where is it too large? Measure the bullets. Are the cartridges too long and hitting the throats? Are the bullets too large to fit the chamber? After you find out where the round is too big then you can determine when it happens. Measure the brass after sizing. Measure the round after bullet seating. Measure the round after a crimp is applied. This will help you find out when the round has become too large. Measure your bullets, your brass, your finished rounds, and measure the hole (chamber). With hard facts, measurements, you can find out what's happening and what to fix. Without facts, it's all a WAG...

 

[at_liberty]

<snip>
I don't think the bullets are faulty because I have "never" had this problem with 38s (using same bullets).

Whew! Time for bed.

If you are shooting the 38s in 357 chambers, the problem could be hidden. I think the problem may be the crimp causing softer lead to mushroom. I would inspect the loaded bullets under magnification and work the diameters until the bullets chamber.

You say you are using Lee dies, but does that include an FCD? If not, the bullets larger than for which the dies were intended (FMJ) could well be mushrooming at the case mouth.

My use of lead in 357 has caused me to use some specialty dies. My setup includes the special two stage sizer from Redding and the M-die expander from Lyman. On 38s, I use the RCBS Cowboy set (that is large by .001 or so), intended for lead.

I too often have to resize purchased lead bullets, which may be over the labeled size by more than .001. Dies setup for something smaller could well mushroom the bullets during crimp.

 

[george_lehr]

For what it's worth.
I had a problem with reloads that would not fully chamber in my Chief's Special. It turned out that the problem was the bullets I used. They were round nose flat point lead Carroll bullets I had picked up at a gun show. The distance from the crimp groove to the end of the straight cylindrical portion of the bullet (before the round nose shape begins) was greater on the Carroll bullets than it was on other make round nose flat point bullets and they would hit the throats before the cartridges were fully chambered.
The reloads were not a problem for my K frame .38s.

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

Do all of the problem rounds have the same headstamp?

 

[Steve C]

If the hang up is at the bottom of the case as described for me this usually happens when using cases that where previously fired in S&W's and then loaded and used in the tighter cylinders of my Colt Revolvers. The fix I've always used is to turn the sizing die down a bit so that it sizes the bottom of the case completely.

 

[skrazo]

Thanks for all the replies. Unfortunately, I am up to my neck in alligators with family issues right now, so shooting and further investigation of this problem will have to be put on hold for a while. But............I "will" report back on this subject.

 

[haris1]

Another "newbie" question. I reloaded 50 rounds of 357 today. 158 gr LSWCs. At about 1/8" to 3/16" from being fully seated in the gun cylinder, four cartridges would not seat completely. The cases looked slightly bulged where the bullet was seated. I removed the bullets & powder, resized the brass (nickel), installed primers and powder. They were better, but still were "tight" at the "final seat" position in the cylinder. I am pretty sure they are not "over crimped", but not positive. Help please. I'm frustrated.

Invest a very small amount of money in a cartridge check die from midway or dillon. L.E. Wilson Max Cartridge Gage 357 Mag
I bet its your technique and you have bulged the cases.
First you decap the primer and next you bell the case mouse and then drop powder in it(the dillon does it at the same time.)Be careful NOT to over bell the case mouth, You should bell the case ever so slightly so the case is expanded just a drop so the bullet will enter the case. You then seat it and the crimp should not overdo it or you expand the case. The check die will insure you didnt overdo it and swell the case. Hope this helps

 

[mikld]

A case gauge is a nice tool to have, but it won't tell you more than your gun's cylinder. In fact a case gauge is just a chamber machined to SAAMI specs...

 

[harleygeorge]

Cartridges

Just in case, purchase a Lewis Lead Remover from Brownells. Do both cylinder and bore. They have short video showing the proper procedure. If you use lead bullets it's a handy tool to have around.

 

[Maximumbob54]

If you have loaded and shot 2000 .38's in that gun then you have carbon build up in the chambers. Soak a swab in solvent and rub the chambers down to soak them with solvent. Let the solvent do it's job and set for a few minutes and repeat until the carbon starts breaking up. You shouldn't have to scrub at it much if the solvent is working. No nead to tear up a bronze brush if you allow the solvent to do its job.

 

[rwsmith]

Same problem...

I had the same problem. I would have to snap some of the cartridges in the last 1/8" or so. Then they would be hard to extract. The bullet was long gone, so I couldn't blame the bullet. One thing I've learned is not to be so ham-fisted with the crimping. If you get any bulging it's going to show. I've never figured out though, why the bullets would 'snap' in I was proud of the last batch I made. Great plunk for all of them except one case I bent because the bullet got hung up on the edge of the rim when seating. It didn't take any pressure at all to mess it up. Some people here say they've never messed up a round in reloading. I took the lesson to be more careful and take my time, but I haven't achieved perfection yet.

PS: I started using .357 brass for .38 loads to keep the crud ring away, since I always shot both at a range outing.

 

[scooter123]

Just because you are using Lee dies doesn't mean that you are using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. Because the FCD is ONLY included in the Lee 4 Die Set. If you are using a Lee 3 Die Pistol set the final die is a combined Seat and Crimp die and with 357 Magnums it is EXTREMELY easy to buckle a case during the crimp operation. I know because I've been there done that frequently enough that with 38 special and 357 Magnum I now use separate Seat and Crimp stages.

BTW, the Lee Factory Crimp Die can be used to make slighly buckled cases useable BUT you must set the FCD up for chamber sizing the full length of the case. Which means that you need to set the die up to crimp a 357 Magnum WITHOUT the spacer ring. I have a Winchester 1892 in 357 Magnum that has a "tight" chamber so I've purchased 2 Lee FCD's so I can have one dedicated to 357 Magnum and the other dedicated to 38 special. I've also used Birchwood Casey Super Blue on the Magnum FCD so it's easy to determine which is which.