357 Mag 125gr Factory Duplication

[Forrest r]

Hello
I have to ask the question to correctly direct the conversation... Compared to what exactly?

I'm not a huge fan of the 125gr bullets by any means in the 38spl's or the 357's. 124/125gr bullets in the 9mm on the other hand are what I use +/- 99% of the time.

I have shot factory & my own reloads using 125gr jacketed bullets in the past. Used anything from 2" bbl.'s to 10" bbl.'s and still test with 2 1/2"/4" (2x)/6" (2x)/8" & 10" bbl.'s to this day.

Your use/test of the speer gd ammo (extremely popular) and there is a lot of tests/info out there with that ammo. A simple search will turn up results like these.
Pocket Guns and Gear: Speer Gold Dot .357 Magnum 125 Grain Clear Gel Test
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/
357 Magnum 20 Percent Ballistic Gelatin

I remember easily getting to the 1500fps range with several loads in the 4" bbl'd 357's with 125gr jacketed bullets. As you can see from the couple of links I posted, they are all in the 1400fps+ range with every day 4" bbl'd revolvers and the same speer 125gr hp ammo. I've followed several of your posts and your #'s just seem low to what I'm getting.

 

[dannyabear]

I'd terminate this experiment. Hot 125 grain loads are known to cause top strap flame cutting, and forcing cone erosion.

Stick with 158 grains or heavier.

WHAT PART OF THIS DON"T YOU UNDERSTAND

 

[brucev]

Have very much enjoyed this thread. Thank you for posting. Once upon a time when the world was a different place, I fiddled around a bit w/ 125 gr. JHP's loaded over various quantities of powder in .357 S&W Magnum cases. I was using a six inch 28-2. Fine fine revolver. Shot this revolver with loads that were hotter than the hinges of the theological place of eternal torment. By personal experience I can guarantee you that sooner or later that stuff will come back to bite you. I like to load stuff hot. But, now I take the loading data seriously rather than thinking of it as more like a suggestion.

So day the discussion will roll around to hot shot loads for the .30-06. Maybe I'll be able to find what I wrote down when I was seeing how much horsepower could be loaded under a 130 gr. JHP. Don't exactly remember any of the loads. Do remember that thing hitting anything from feral dogs to south Louisiana deer ... it was impressive. Sincerely. bruce.

 

[RDub]

I'm not a huge fan of the 125gr bullets by any means in the 38spl's or the 357's. 124/125gr bullets in the 9mm on the other hand are what I use +/- 99% of the time.

I have shot factory & my own reloads using 125gr jacketed bullets in the past. Used anything from 2" bbl.'s to 10" bbl.'s and still test with 2 1/2"/4" (2x)/6" (2x)/8" & 10" bbl.'s to this day.

Your use/test of the speer gd ammo (extremely popular) and there is a lot of tests/info out there with that ammo. A simple search will turn up results like these.
Pocket Guns and Gear: Speer Gold Dot .357 Magnum 125 Grain Clear Gel Test
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/
357 Magnum 20 Percent Ballistic Gelatin

I remember easily getting to the 1500fps range with several loads in the 4" bbl'd 357's with 125gr jacketed bullets. As you can see from the couple of links I posted, they are all in the 1400fps+ range with every day 4" bbl'd revolvers and the same speer 125gr hp ammo. I've followed several of your posts and your #'s just seem low to what I'm getting.

Well there are a number of reasons for velocity discrepancies, like temperature, no two guns are exactly the same, and chronographs don't always agree with one another.
What chonograph do you use? What is the distance from muzzle to where velocity is read?
I have noticed that velocities I get are a little slower than a lot of data taken with the 'Chrony' type chronographs.
I had a rather in depth conversation with one of the techs at Oehler Research about this and he had a lot to say about this.. Most was a little over my head, but the gist of it was that the relatively short distance between sensors tends to error high, and also shooters tend to put the sensors too close to the muzzle which causes another issue. Ones whole investment is 'downrange' so putting it too far away isn't comfortable.
He also assured me that my Oehler product is a precision state of the art instrument and that as long as I do my part, as getting the spacing exactly correct, and keeping the unit shielded from muzzle blast, I will get precise, as precise as this instrument can be, velocity data.
I often think about a way to calibrate these things using sound that travels about 1133 fps depending on environment, and LED's that react to sound over the sensors. The velocity reading should be around 1133 fps.
I'm actually looking into the Doppler Radar technology available now.
The articles you forwarded did not indicate what product they were using, as least I didn't see it.

So it could be a slow gun, cold weather or any number of things. The only thing that is exact about this game, is it is not exact..

 

[Nevada Ed]

" top strap flame cutting....." quote;

Not all powders do this.
Just a few that are packed to the brim, and burn longer than a fast powder.

Plus these 100% loads are usually a "Specialty load" used in hunting
where you don't go through 500, in a years time.

 

[M29since14]

Interesting information. Your presentations are great! I always enjoy them. Thank you!

 

[Forrest r]

Didn't mean anything by it, just seems your #'s are always low compared to what I'm getting with a chrony & competition electronics chronograph. Your #'s are also low compared to what I consider "reputable" sources like the brass fetcher link I posted above. Brass fetcher is an independent ballistics testing company.

Brass fetchet:
Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing has been in commercial operation since 2011. It was initially started by myself as a hobby website while I was studying Mechanical Engineering at Florida State University. That was 2004 and I began my interest in studying terminal ballistics, that is, what a bullet does after it strikes a target. Most of the time, ballistic gelatin blocks were the target and these results were posted to the Internet and enjoyed wide distribution to the online firearms community.
Immediately upon graduating University, I went to work for the Unites States Army, Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center (ARDEC) at Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey. There I was a Research and Development engineer in the Small Caliber Munitions group, where I worked on a variety of long-term terminal ballistics tests, weapon evaluations, redesigns, proprietary cartridge and projectile development. My service with ARDEC afforded me the opportunity to interact with countless dedicated people who are experts at their craft both at Picatinny Arsenal and at other Department of Defense Activities for a span of 4 years.
After employment with the US Government, Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing was incorporated in the state of Florida and began to function as a commercial for-profit company. Today we provide third-party terminal ballistics testing solutions to Ammunition Developers, slow motion video footage to Film Libraries, Firearms owners and Historical Researchers. I am available to provide Expert Witness testimony in matters concerning bullet impacts and effects on human beings and inanimate objects.
Please take a moment to browse through our online database and view some of our work that we have done for other organizations.

I trust these peoples tests, when I'm in the same zip code as people like this or lucky gunner or handloader magazine. I'm confident in what I'm getting from the chronographs I use. I do understand the difference in firearms, heck even did a bunch of testing with bbl gaps. Kinda easy to do when you own a couple of dan Wesson 357's and several different bbl.'s/bbl lengths.

I'm not trying to steal your thunder, take away from what you do, or say anything negative by any means. I have the upmost respect for what you do and love all the posts/time you've taken to share your results. It's just that I find a lot of your testing on the low/slow side. I'm getting the same velocity's you're getting a lot of times out of a 2 1/2" bbl'd 586 l-comp. Couple that with +/- 100fps more out of a couple of 4" bbl'd dw bbl.'s.

 

[RDub]

Forrest R no offense was taken at all.. We're just talkin here.. and I appreciate the comments.
Thank you for introducing yourself. You have an interesting background.
I'm curious to know what kind of equipment does an organization like ARDEC use for testing..
I've been following Lucky Gunner for a while, but was not familiar with Brass Fetcher. Thanks for the heads up.

It could very well be that my Oehler unit reads slower. It's not the first time this possibility has been pondered. I have no way to dispute or verify this, as there isn't any measurable constant to calibrate to.
What I would hope is still valid, even though the points on the graph might be a little left, but their relationship with one another is still the same.
You have seen the 38 Spl 125gr JHP+P I posted recently I assume, so do those velocities seem slow also?
The Oehler folks have suggested I get the newer Skyscreen III's. They have better shielding they say. Over the years I have seen some strange anomalies with different chronographs due to blast exposure.
Just the other day I was chronographing some .357's out of a 2½" S&W 66 under a low roof I built for my shooting bench in the back of the house. It was quite noisy under that roof! The chronograph was reading half the velocity it should have been.. Blast anomalies.. Moved the unit further away from the blast and it read more realistically.
So I think I'm going to get some new skyscreens and see what happens.

It would be an interesting experiment to get several different chrono's and set them up to measure the same round at the same time.

Back in the 70's I had a 4" model 28. Thing was massive..

Thanks again for the comments..