I have a good supply of 158gr Lead RN bullets that I would like to reload in 357 cases. The stated OAL for the cartridge is 1.590" That would make it difficult to crimp the above bullets because of the long tapered profile. I made a dummy round with an OAL length of 1.66 which allows a roll crimp and fits my Mod 19 cylinder with room to spare. Question is whether or not this is doable from a safety standpoint. Any and all comments/views are appreciated.
357 Mag OAL Question
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bigggbbruce
Member
If'n it loads to the rim and 'aint stickin' out the end, good to go.
I have loaded 357 revolvers from 1.58 to 1.66" OAL over the years, it depends a lot on the bullet and its design.
I have some Mag-Tech 158gr LRN that I am loading right now that work with a 1.66" oal and a medium crimp with my light target loads.
At these extra long lengths a medium crimp is needed and a heavy crimp for any thing heavier in fps, to prevent bullet creep.
I have some Mag-Tech 158gr LRN that I am loading right now that work with a 1.66" oal and a medium crimp with my light target loads.
At these extra long lengths a medium crimp is needed and a heavy crimp for any thing heavier in fps, to prevent bullet creep.
Hey Ed!
That's the bullet and that's the length I wanted to make them! You hit the nail on the head. Can I ask you the loading data you have been using? I was thinking 3.0 or 3.1 Clays over CCI SP primer guessing 750fps or so. Thanks for the help!
noylj
Member
COL does NOT come from books, it comes from YOUR GUN and THE BULLET.
Seat the bullet so you can roll crimp into the crimp groove, cannelure, or over the shoulder of the bullet and work up the load using THAT COL.
For a revolver, the COL is only limited by the length of the cylinder.
Seat the bullet so you can roll crimp into the crimp groove, cannelure, or over the shoulder of the bullet and work up the load using THAT COL.
For a revolver, the COL is only limited by the length of the cylinder.
If it clears the gap......
If the length of the cartridge is short enough to clear the cylinder gap and not get hung up on the forcing cone, it's safe.
Still, dropping the starting load and working up is always a good idea
If the length of the cartridge is short enough to clear the cylinder gap and not get hung up on the forcing cone, it's safe.
Still, dropping the starting load and working up is always a good idea
USSR
Member
No need to reduce the starting load when you increase the COL, as pressure will be lower. If you reduce the COL, then reducing the starting load and working up is a good idea.
Don
As others have stated, load the oal to crimp and make sure it fits the cylinders.
it's what's below the case that counts and makes a difference in pressures when finding the oal of your load.
3 different bullets all "keith" swc's for the 38spl/357's. They all are a different height but the crimp groove/seating depth of the bullet's base/case volume is the same for all 3 bullets.
I use the same data for all 3 bullets even though the oal is different for all 3. They all seat to the same depth (bullet base) in the 357 case and have the same case capacity for the powder.
These 148gr wc's & hbwc's on the other hand will take up different amounts of case volume when seated flush or in the crimp groove.
I make allot of my own swaged bullets, lead and jacketed. There are no books or written oals/loads for them. I'll take a known bullet of the same weight or a little heavier and stand them side by side and mark where the know bullets crimp groove is on the unknown/home made bullet and use that seating depth. Or I'll measure the known bullet oal and then make a dummy round seating that bullet to the mfg's oal. Then measure what's left of that bullet that's sticking out above the case. Subtract the 2 #'s and find the amount the known bullets base is seated in the case.
Above the case ='s oal for cylinders/chambers
Below the case ='s oal of bullet's base/depth in case/pressure
it's what's below the case that counts and makes a difference in pressures when finding the oal of your load.
3 different bullets all "keith" swc's for the 38spl/357's. They all are a different height but the crimp groove/seating depth of the bullet's base/case volume is the same for all 3 bullets.
I use the same data for all 3 bullets even though the oal is different for all 3. They all seat to the same depth (bullet base) in the 357 case and have the same case capacity for the powder.
These 148gr wc's & hbwc's on the other hand will take up different amounts of case volume when seated flush or in the crimp groove.
I make allot of my own swaged bullets, lead and jacketed. There are no books or written oals/loads for them. I'll take a known bullet of the same weight or a little heavier and stand them side by side and mark where the know bullets crimp groove is on the unknown/home made bullet and use that seating depth. Or I'll measure the known bullet oal and then make a dummy round seating that bullet to the mfg's oal. Then measure what's left of that bullet that's sticking out above the case. Subtract the 2 #'s and find the amount the known bullets base is seated in the case.
Above the case ='s oal for cylinders/chambers
Below the case ='s oal of bullet's base/depth in case/pressure
noshow;
I do not have any more Clays for a 750 fps loading but I have used
Bullseye up to 918 fps
Red Dot to 960
w231 to 899
Trail Boss to 788 (max)
Green Dot to 984 up to 1281 fps (max)
Unique powder from 960 up to 1320 fps (max)
2400 powder from 996 up to 1274 fps. (98% load)
Most light target loads from 900 to 980fps did well in my 6" barrels with about 5.0grs of any fast powder except TB.
I would try for 790 fps minimum fps in the 357 case if not using Trail Boss. Accuracy did not kick in with the other powders for me, until they started hitting the 850 fps mark with Bullseye and 918 was the best accuracy for a minimum target loading. w231 started at 899 fps but I never went farther with this powder for some odd reason but a 99% loading of its cousin, CFE did hit 1094 with one of my test loads.
These are a great bullet for loading and they also do very well in my J frame snub nose with Trail or Bullseye for a light target load. Have fun.
I do not have any more Clays for a 750 fps loading but I have used
Bullseye up to 918 fps
Red Dot to 960
w231 to 899
Trail Boss to 788 (max)
Green Dot to 984 up to 1281 fps (max)
Unique powder from 960 up to 1320 fps (max)
2400 powder from 996 up to 1274 fps. (98% load)
Most light target loads from 900 to 980fps did well in my 6" barrels with about 5.0grs of any fast powder except TB.
I would try for 790 fps minimum fps in the 357 case if not using Trail Boss. Accuracy did not kick in with the other powders for me, until they started hitting the 850 fps mark with Bullseye and 918 was the best accuracy for a minimum target loading. w231 started at 899 fps but I never went farther with this powder for some odd reason but a 99% loading of its cousin, CFE did hit 1094 with one of my test loads.
These are a great bullet for loading and they also do very well in my J frame snub nose with Trail or Bullseye for a light target load. Have fun.
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Hey Guys, Thanks to you all!
What a great response I received from all of you! Thank you soo much. The Reloading Forum on the S&W Forum website is a goldmine of information very willingly shared by it's members! I love this place, thanks again.
What a great response I received from all of you! Thank you soo much. The Reloading Forum on the S&W Forum website is a goldmine of information very willingly shared by it's members! I love this place, thanks again.
To give an explanation......
Since the .38 special cartridge is a hold over from black powder days and the .357 is just a higher pressure .38 special. Because of that there is a much larger volume of empty space as compared to a high pressure cartridge such as the 9mm Luger that is very sensitive to overall length of the cartridge. In other words, with old revolver cartridges you have lot more leeway with OAL than a newer high pressure cartridge.
Since the .38 special cartridge is a hold over from black powder days and the .357 is just a higher pressure .38 special. Because of that there is a much larger volume of empty space as compared to a high pressure cartridge such as the 9mm Luger that is very sensitive to overall length of the cartridge. In other words, with old revolver cartridges you have lot more leeway with OAL than a newer high pressure cartridge.
You obviously got your answer, but I'd just throw out a tidbit. It might be they are more "designed" for .38 Special loads. The .38 Special case is 0.25" shorter than the .357. But the max OAL is only 0.04" shorter than the .357. So a bullet that was more traditionally used in .38s at close to the max length would be over the max length when used in a .357 case and crimped in the same spot.
mstem
Member
If the bullet doesn't stick out the end of the cylinder you are good to go.
Clovishound
Member
With .38 and .357, I never worry about OAL. I just seat to the cannelure and take whatever OAL that gives me. I have never had a chambering issue with any of my weapons. I always start out with reduced loads and work up.
The only issue I've ever had was working up .357 using 4227. Halfway up the range the base of the bullet in 158 gr XTP starts to contact the powder. I stopped there, rather than get into a compressed situation. I was trying to work up a hunting load, then I discovered that factory American Eagles run 1800 fps out of a 20" barrel with a 158 gr soft point.
The only issue I've ever had was working up .357 using 4227. Halfway up the range the base of the bullet in 158 gr XTP starts to contact the powder. I stopped there, rather than get into a compressed situation. I was trying to work up a hunting load, then I discovered that factory American Eagles run 1800 fps out of a 20" barrel with a 158 gr soft point.
If you see a cannelure............... it is a little faint on the Mag-Tech bullet !! 
Any thing short of the Ogive should be ok if it is inside the cylinder.
Here is a picture of my finished loading. (38 Spl )
Any thing short of the Ogive should be ok if it is inside the cylinder.
Here is a picture of my finished loading. (38 Spl )
fredj338
Member
OAL for revolver only matters when the round won't fit the cyl. The M27 has a short cyl so what works in my M19 or 686 won't always in my M27. The 173grLSWC comes to mind. Otherwise, crimp in the crimp groove & not worry about it.
bigggbbruce
Member
A model 60 .357 has a real short cylinder. When loading a new bullet type OAL is a prime concern.
Groo01
Member
Groo here
Most all "factory " bullets for 38 and 357 are the same crimp groove location.
It is in lead bullets you have the problem.
The 38spec and 357mag were originally made in the same
cylinder length [short] and the shells were almost the same length.
Keith made his SWC to extend from the case to use
the rest of the cylinder length [ internal space about the same as the 357mag]
The 357 was made for the same cylinder but with a longer case
so the long nose keith will not fit when crimped to the same place.
Keith fixed this by crimping over the front driving band and
smith later made some cylinders longer.
Most all "factory " bullets for 38 and 357 are the same crimp groove location.
It is in lead bullets you have the problem.
The 38spec and 357mag were originally made in the same
cylinder length [short] and the shells were almost the same length.
Keith made his SWC to extend from the case to use
the rest of the cylinder length [ internal space about the same as the 357mag]
The 357 was made for the same cylinder but with a longer case
so the long nose keith will not fit when crimped to the same place.
Keith fixed this by crimping over the front driving band and
smith later made some cylinders longer.
