.357 Magnum +p+?

[GypsmJim]

Your problem was listening to the guy at Cabelas. It could have been as dangerous as listening to guys on the internet.

Lee's dies, booklets and dippers are awesomely wonderful. Your problem was you DIDN'T READ THE DIRECTIONS.

The manual lists powder type, bullet weight and dipper size. Follow all that and you will make a superb load.

You didn't use the correct powder. It wasn't on the list. You screwed up bad. The problem with today's society is that people go off half cocked. Does anyone know how to read anymore?

Lee's formulas are designed for minimum pressures and safe loads. I agree that a dipper is only as good as the idiot using them, and that they are not as precise as an expensive powder measure. Nevertheless, a dipper used with a scale will provide a charge that is safe, and close enough in precision that normal target shooting will provide adequate results.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Actually a dipper used in conjunction with a scale gives extra precision & safety in that the powder has been measured 1st by volume and then checked again by weight...

Of course, the accuracy of the scale would be the final determinant, but short loads (aka "squibs") & 2 (or even 3) X loads (KABOOMS!) are easily avoided.

Cheers!

 

[Doug M.]

Ok, I think the OP has received enough of a flogging. If no one made ignorant mistakes, lots of us would not have examples from which to learn, and I'll bet most of us know that the guy in the mirror is capable of being a real knothead.

 

[DWalt]

Titegroup is comparable to the fast handgun and shotshell propellants such as Bullseye, 700-X, Red Dot, AA#2, and Clays. Standard .38 Special loads using such powders will generally be somewhere close to 3.5 grains with 158 grain bullets. You can find all the reliable reloading data you will ever need on the powder distributors' websites, such as Hodgdon's, for free. You can also buy sets of different sizes of powder scoops, such as those made by Lee. There are better and faster ways to go, but a set of Lee scoops is actually all you need to load .38 Special (and most other handgun and rifle calibers) safely.

 

[pantannojack]

[/I] The guy at Cabela's said no worries -
(which I've later learned was not quite correct as I told him I intended to load .357 Magnum as well as .38 Special) all of the different powders listed on the sheet said to use the supplied dipper, and he said I couldn't go wrong with using it for TiteGroup.


NEVER Trust a Salesperson.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

[/I] The guy at Cabela's said no worries -
(which I've later learned was not quite correct as I told him I intended to load .357 Magnum as well as .38 Special) all of the different powders listed on the sheet said to use the supplied dipper, and he said I couldn't go wrong with using it for TiteGroup.


NEVER Trust a Salesperson.

Uh...?

I'm SO confused!

Cheers!

 

[cracker57]

the reason one needs multiple manuals and why they may differ in what weight charge to use for powder X is there are more factors than the weight of powder X. The primer used, and the col all make a difference in pressure. I believe the col has a lot to do with pressure and a good manual would explain why, so read them!

 

[Tim357]

Some Lee stuff is very good. I use a single stage for light work. I have several sets of dies for stuff I only occasionally load for.
BUT I ALWAYS THROW THE DIPPERS AWAY!

Why? Have you used them? Once you get a technique down, they are as accurate as anything. Volume measure has some advantages. Consider that all the manufacturers use volume measurement for their loading process.

Also, with a volume measure, the powder column in the case is always the same, given proper technique. If a certain lot of powder is a mite heavier due to moisture, a volume measure will still have the same space taken up in the case. True also, if lighter, it will still occupy the same amount of space in the case.

 

[GypsmJim]

Also, with a volume measure, the powder column in the case is always the same, given proper technique. If a certain lot of powder is a mite heavier due to moisture, a volume measure will still have the same space taken up in the case. True also, if lighter, it will still occupy the same amount of space in the case.

I started reloading with Lee Loaders and dippers. Eventually I graduated to more "upscale" Process.

I bought my first powder measure over 50 years ago. It had a very fine scale to make adjustments with. At that time I was loading several cartridges using Bullseye, Unique and IMR3031.

The first thing I did was do a volumetric calibration for each powder. In each case, plotted on Lotus123, the Rsq. was 99%+.

I find it quite interesting that after all these years those old calibrations are still spot on.

Obviously, if the volume is always the same, the only way the mass can vary is if the density varies. I keep all my powders in original containers, well sealed and well stored, so I would guess that any moisture pickup would be minimal, if at all. My conclusion is that those powder manufacturers have made consistent products over the years.

(PS - all my data is now on Excel....)

 

[rockquarry]

I use four Redding measures; the newest one is more than thirty years old. I've found that settings will often (maybe not always) have to be adjusted at least slightly over time. I don't know whether this is due to powder moisture content or some factor I'm unaware of.

I use quite a variety of powders though far fewer than I used to. I always use a powder scale to verify measure settings every time I use any of the measures. I've used many other measures over the years but don't recall whether re-adjustment of settings was necessary, though I'm pretty sure it was.

 

[Miracle Man]

Why? Have you used them? Once you get a technique down, they are as accurate as anything. Volume measure has some advantages. Consider that all the manufacturers use volume measurement for their loading process.

Also, with a volume measure, the powder column in the case is always the same, given proper technique. If a certain lot of powder is a mite heavier due to moisture, a volume measure will still have the same space taken up in the case. True also, if lighter, it will still occupy the same amount of space in the case.

Yup

Whenever I started reloading (rifle) gosh like 83. All I had was the Lee dippers. Loaded many rounds with them. 22-250, 270, 30-06. Didn't get a scale for several months after I started. Worked like a charm.

 

[pantannojack]

I weigh every charge, except my 38 spcl load of 4g 231, which throws very uniformly in my Pacific drum measure.

 

[rosewood]

Unless you have an electric powder drop, they are all done by volume. I adjust my drop and check the weight until it is correct, then do several additional drops to make sure it is consistent then start loading. I may check a drop every now and then to make sure nothing has changed.

I once hand weighed an accurate rifle load then loaded the same using the volume powder drop. I could see no discernible difference in accuracy or velocity between the two, in fact, the ones I didn't manually weigh were slightly better than those I did (although was likely within statistical variation).

Measure by volume for me. Significantly faster than weighing every charge and not worth it at all in handgun or plinking loads.

Rosewood

 

[stansdds]

Unless you have an electric powder drop, they are all done by volume. I adjust my drop and check the weight until it is correct, then do several additional drops to make sure it is consistent then start loading. I may check a drop every now and then to make sure nothing has changed.

I once hand weighed an accurate rifle load then loaded the same using the volume powder drop. I could see no discernible difference in accuracy or velocity between the two, in fact, the ones I didn't manually weigh were slightly better than those I did (although was likely within statistical variation).

Measure by volume for me. Significantly faster than weighing every charge and not worth it at all in handgun or plinking loads.

Rosewood

I agree, measuring by volume is perfectly acceptable and accurate, you just need to know the volume being metered is the desired weight and is not outside of published, safe data.

If you are a bench rest precision rifle shooter, you may get a slight gain in consistent velocity by precisely weighing every charge, but you also need to use brass that is from one production lot, identical in length, identical in internal volume, bullets that are identical, perfectly concentric, matching weights, everything has to be perfect. Many of us are not capable of wringing the accuracy potential from even mass production grade firearms, much less custom built, precision firearms.

 

[glenwolde]

I started reloading with Lee Loaders and dippers. Eventually I graduated to more "upscale" Process.

I bought my first powder measure over 50 years ago. It had a very fine scale to make adjustments with. At that time I was loading several cartridges using Bullseye, Unique and IMR3031.

The first thing I did was do a volumetric calibration for each powder. In each case, plotted on Lotus123, the Rsq. was 99%+.

I find it quite interesting that after all these years those old calibrations are still spot on.

Obviously, if the volume is always the same, the only way the mass can vary is if the density varies. I keep all my powders in original containers, well sealed and well stored, so I would guess that any moisture pickup would be minimal, if at all. My conclusion is that those powder manufacturers have made consistent products over the years.

(PS - all my data is now on Excel....)

If anybody else is interested Lee has done that for us these days...

https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/VMD.pdf

VMD is "Volume Measure Density" or the volume of one grain of powder. You can use this chart with the Lee powder measures, it's how they calibrate their volume adjustment. Not sure how other companies mark their measures.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

So, if two powders have the exact same VMDs (for example, CFE-Pistol & vN-130 @ .0754) the weights shown on the LEE Dippers Chart for the various sized dippers using vN-130 (which is a listed powder) should be exactly the same for CFE-Pistol, which doesn't show on their chart?

I'm going to give them a quick test using my ol' OHAUS & digital scale today.

Cheers!

P.S. A big THANKS! to glenwolde for the link to the chart.. There are other powders listed that don't appear on the LEE Dippers Chart that I'm interested in as well.

 

[glenwolde]

The problem with the Lee dippers is they have to coarse a graduation. It always seems there's two choices: too big and too small. I have been pestering them for years to make a pistol-specific set that has more gradual volume increments. But alas, to no avail. I will have to keep making my own when needed.

I don't use them much. There's a few loads with 800-X I use them for and a couple of Trail Boss loads. 800-X has been discontinued so when my supply is gone that won't be necessary. I never tried to meter Trail Boss. Maybe it works fine. Not a powder I plan to replace when mine is gone.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The problem with the Lee dippers is they have to coarse a graduation. It always seems there's two choices: too big and too small. I have been pestering them for years to make a pistol-specific set that has more gradual volume increments. But alas, to no avail. I will have to keep making my own when needed.

I don't use them much. There's a few loads with 800-X I use them for and a couple of Trail Boss loads. 800-X has been discontinued so when my supply is gone that won't be necessary. I never tried to meter Trail Boss. Maybe it works fine. Not a powder I plan to replace when mine is gone.

Not only does that hold true for the dippers but for the disks used in their Pro Auto-Disk powder measure. You end up having to modify the metering opening with a screw to reduce the volume.

 

[tlawler]

It looks like we ran the OP off. I hope he is heeding our advice.

 

[CRT2]

Seems a little out of the ordinary for an 18B to have done, SF Weapons Sergeant. Still an excellent lesson learned.

 

[Doug M.]

I see that the OP has been back since he posted, but it would not surprise me if the piling on got to him. I too considered the significance of the screen name as an MOS. The reality is that one can be quite savvy about firearms in general, but not know much about reloading. I fit in that group, but I know enough to not take up reloading at this time in my life, and when/if I do, I will be quite OCD about studying and otherwise applying appropriate caution.