.357 Magnum REG 657 Update

[DARE]

Got my documents from S&WHF today.

1. Order no. 1864 from Potchernick's in San Antonio for two .357 Magnums. One 5" and one 6 1/2". Both with McGivern front sight and sighted at 50 yds. Dated 11/15/1935.

2. Letter from S&W sales dept. dated November 21, 1935. States changed Reg no. 658 to no. 275 I think. Photo copy is not real clear. Says that gun will probably ship sooner than Reg. #657.

3.Order form also dated 11/15/35. 5" barrel, McGivern front sight, Sq. Notch rear sight. Sighted 50 yds with .357 Magnum ammo six o'clock hold. Magna stocks.

4.Shipping invoice for Reg. #657 dated 11/19/35. Confirms order info. Has a date stamp DEC 24 1935.

5. Letter from Potchernick's dated Dec 11, 1936. States gun is the property of Jomer C White, c/o the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Customer is very much dissatisfied with it and says gun is out of time. Asks that it be corrected and returned immediately. Two date stamps, one says Rec'd Dec 15 1936. The other says Chg'd Dec 17 1936.

So I guess I would not know about the FBI connection if not for the gun being returned.
Hope this is as interesting to you guys as it is to me.

 

[steelslaver]

What I find interesting is the vaulted registered Magnum which was hand fitted by S&W's best was supposedly out of time. Find it kind of hard to believe. Would love to know the whole story.

 

[SWSC]

Interesting article

 

[Buford57]

I believe the Jomer is a typo or misread. Your man is James C. "Doc" White and he should get the same recognition given to Bryce, Hurt, Campbell and Winstead.



James Campbell "Doc" White (1884-1969) - Find A Grave Memorial

From the Historical G-Men site.

FBI Special Agent, James C. "Doc" White ("Doc" White) (1924-1947)

Photos of SA James "Doc" White can be found in our photo gallery. (Note: Some of the below was provided by White's great nephew, James M. White, in addition to some data previously supplied by our retired agent colleague who reviewed White's file for an article on him and his brother, Thomas.)

James Campbell "Doc" White, was born in 1884 in the family home at Austin, Texas. His father was sheriff of Travis County for many years and his brothers, Dudley and Tom, served as Texas Rangers. "Doc" joined the Texas Rangers in 1905., serving under the legendary Ranger, Captain John R. Hughes. Author Zane Grey spent three months trailing him around once, to gather material for one of his books. White left the Rangers early in 1908 and, until joining the Bureau on December 1, 1924, served as an Austin, Texas Police Officer, mounted U.S. Customs Inspector, 1st Lieutenant in U.S. Army Intelligence and Prohibition Agent in the U.S. Treasury Department.

He married Ashby LeNoir McCulloch in 1907 at Austin. She was the granddaughter of General Henry E. McCulloch, CSA and great-niece of General Ben McCulloch, both being generals in the Confederate Army. "Doc" and LeNoir had no children.

"Doc" attended Bickler's College and Griffith's Business College in Austin. He was first employed as an oiler in the Austin Electrical pumping plant, then a brakeman on the Old Austin Northwestern Railway, now the Southern Pacific.

White entered the FBI as a special agent in 1924. According to a note in the FBI's "Grapevine" magazine in 1960, "he had quite a bullet spattered career by the time he joined the Bureau in 1924." One of his Bureau peers, Andrew Longo, told the "Grapevine" White was a great firearms man. "He was especially deadly with a 30.06 rifle and Tommy gun and was assigned to squads that helped end Dillinger's career and the Ma Barker gang in Florida." Longo mentioned that "Doc" was a legend throughout the Southwest and was among the best known Special Agents.

FBI documents show White's presence at the famous gun battle in Wisconsin at the Little Bohemia Lodge in April, 1934 when the Bureau attempted to capture Dillinger, Nelson and others who were visiting the Lodge.

"Doc" was known for his ability to direct and lead a group of Agents on raids and dangerous assignments. On January 8, 1935, he and other SAs cornered fugitive Russell Gibson at a location in Chicago. Gibson, wearing a bulletproof vest, decided to charge White's position firing both a rifle and pistol. Using a .351 rifle he had captured in the raid on Dillinger's hideout at Little Bohemia a year before, White returned fire, killing Gibson.

On January 16, 1935, White and a squad of Agents, armed with tommyguns and gas guns, and led by SAC E. J. Connelley, surrounded a farm house in Oklawaha, Florida. Inside they had cornered Kate "Ma" Barker and her son Fred. Connelley later wrote,"At the time I was endeavoring to induce these two parties to leave the house and surrender, they fired upon me. Due to the effective return fire of Agent White, who was at my right hand side behind a tree, I was able to fall back and return their fire at this same time. Undoubtedly the effective fire of Agent White distracted the Barkers sufficiently to confuse their aim, resulting in no injury to anyone. They also at this time fired upon Agent White."

At the shootout with "Ma" Barker and her son, "Doc" White is mentioned in Charles Winstead's "expense records" on this site and White's statement regarding that shooting (and more) is also in the navigation area regarding the Barker incident.

During World War II, White worked on a number of Espionage, Sabotage and Escaped Prisoner of War cases.

(His brother, Thomas B. White, was a Special Agent from 1917 - 1927 and also came from the Texas Rangers. He resigned from the FBI to take a position with the Bureau Of Prisons and began that career as the acting warden of Levenworth Penitentiary. As of 1960, Tom White's son was also a Special Agent with the FBI.)

"Doc" White retired from the FBI in 1947 and in 1960, he was living in Austin, Texas. He died in February, 1969.

Check the photo gallery for photos of "Doc" White supplied to us by his great nephew, James M. White.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/...H1IZKPI25TPEO/Kelly+at+trial.png?format=1500w

 

[bigwheelzip]

States gun is the property of Jomer C White, c/o the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

There seems to be nothing on Google about a "Jomer" but if that's a misspelling, there was an FBI agent at that time named J.C. "Doc" White, who was from Texas. He had quite a storied career....

FBI Special Agent, James C. "Doc" White ("Doc" White) (1924-1947)

James Campbell "Doc" White, was born in 1884 in the family home at Austin, Texas. His father was sheriff of Travis County for many years and his brothers, Dudley and Tom, served as Texas Rangers. "Doc" joined the Texas Rangers in 1905., serving under the legendary Ranger, Captain John R. Hughes. Author Zane Grey spent three months trailing him around once, to gather material for one of his books. White left the Rangers early in 1908 and, until joining the Bureau on December 1, 1924, served as an Austin, Texas Police Officer, mounted U.S. Customs Inspector, 1st Lieutenant in U.S. Army Intelligence and Prohibition Agent in the U.S. Treasury Department.

He married Ashby LeNoir McCulloch in 1907 at Austin. She was the granddaughter of General Henry E. McCulloch, CSA and great-niece of General Ben McCulloch, both being generals in the Confederate Army. "Doc" and LeNoir had no children.

"Doc" attended Bickler's College and Griffith's Business College in Austin. He was first employed as an oiler in the Austin Electrical pumping plant, then a brakeman on the Old Austin Northwestern Railway, now the Southern Pacific.

White entered the FBI as a special agent in 1924. According to a note in the FBI's "Grapevine" magazine in 1960, "he had quite a bullet spattered career by the time he joined the Bureau in 1924." One of his Bureau peers, Andrew Longo, told the "Grapevine" White was a great firearms man. "He was especially deadly with a 30.06 rifle and Tommy gun and was assigned to squads that helped end Dillinger's career and the Ma Barker gang in Florida." Longo mentioned that "Doc" was a legend throughout the Southwest and was among the best known Special Agents.

FBI documents show White's presence at the famous gun battle in Wisconsin at the Little Bohemia Lodge in April, 1934 when the Bureau attempted to capture Dillinger, Nelson and others who were visiting the Lodge.

"Doc" was known for his ability to direct and lead a group of Agents on raids and dangerous assignments. On January 8, 1935, he and other SAs cornered fugitive Russell Gibson at a location in Chicago. Gibson, wearing a bulletproof vest, decided to charge White's position firing both a rifle and pistol. Using a .351 rifle he had captured in the raid on Dillinger's hideout at Little Bohemia a year before, White returned fire, killing Gibson.

On January 16, 1935, White and a squad of Agents, armed with tommyguns and gas guns, and led by SAC E. J. Connelley, surrounded a farm house in Oklawaha, Florida. Inside they had cornered Kate "Ma" Barker and her son Fred. Connelley later wrote,"At the time I was endeavoring to induce these two parties to leave the house and surrender, they fired upon me. Due to the effective return fire of Agent White, who was at my right hand side behind a tree, I was able to fall back and return their fire at this same time. Undoubtedly the effective fire of Agent White distracted the Barkers sufficiently to confuse their aim, resulting in no injury to anyone. They also at this time fired upon Agent White."

At the shootout with "Ma" Barker and her son, "Doc" White is mentioned in Charles Winstead's "expense records" on this site and White's statement regarding that shooting (and more) is also in the navigation area regarding the Barker incident.

During World War II, White worked on a number of Espionage, Sabotage and Escaped Prisoner of War cases.

(His brother, Thomas B. White, was a Special Agent from 1917 - 1927 and also came from the Texas Rangers. He resigned from the FBI to take a position with the Bureau Of Prisons and began that career as the acting warden of Levenworth Penitentiary. As of 1960, Tom White's son was also a Special Agent with the FBI.)

"Doc" White retired from the FBI in 1947 and in 1960, he was living in Austin, Texas. He died in February, 1969.

 

[DARE]

Typo

Letter from Potchernick's says Jomer. That would be quite a typo.
Would be great if my gun belonged to James C White.
Wonder if any other info can be obtained through S&W or S&WHF?

 

[bigwheelzip]

Letter from Potchernick's says Jomer. That would be quite a typo.

Well, the letter calls the gun a 375 Magnum instead of 357 .... so maybe a bit careless?

 

[DARE]

Yep

If there was an agent named James C White and there was not an agent named Jomer C White, then James is probably the gun owner.
If the typist was looking at something written in cursive, a cursive "a" could be mistaken for an "o" and a cursive "s" could be mistaken for an "r" quite easily.

 

[SAFireman]

Sounds like Doc was a pretty important man in his day. Texas Ranger, FBI, Customs, and Army Intel? That's quite a resume

 

[Doc44]

David...I sent your a Private Message.

Bill

 

[SWSC]

About two years before the purchase of this RM, the San Antonio FBI office had only 7 agents assigned per this document. Courtesy, Historical G-men.

 

[Bullet Bob]

"5. Letter from Potchernick's dated Dec 11, 1936. States gun is the property of Jomer C White, c/o the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Customer is very much dissatisfied with it and says gun is out of time. Asks that it be corrected and returned immediately. Two date stamps, one says Rec'd Dec 15 1936. The other says Chg'd Dec 17 1936."

Well that can't be right, if I've learned nothing else from the internet, it's that old guns were put together by magic elves, unlike the machine made trash of today.

 

[SWSC]

JC Doc White obit. Great service record and view his honorary pallbearers.

 

[SWSC]

JC Doc White Feb 12, 1969 A sharp eyed member caught error 2nd para 2nd sentence calling White, Smith

 

[Buford57]

So at the height of the "automobile bandit" era the 7 agents in San Antonio were sharing 4 revolvers? I'm betting Doc or Jomer or whoever wasn't waiting around to be issued a sidearm.

 

[DARE]

Hmm

Interesting. If J Edgar Hoover is a pall bearer at your funeral, I would say you are a big deal.
7 FBI agents in San Antonio in 1933. Probably not much different in 1936 when gun was returned to S&W
What are the chances to have agents named Jomer C White and James C White in San Antonio?
I'm thinking my gun was owned by James C White.

 

[Buford57]

Interesting. If J Edgar Hoover is a pall bearer at your funeral, I would say you are a big deal.
7 FBI agents in San Antonio in 1933. Probably not much different in 1936 when gun was returned to S&W
What are the chances to have agents named Jomer C White and James C White in San Antonio?
I'm thinking my gun was owned by James C White.

The write up on the Historical G-Men site says some of the info was provided by his great nephew, James M. White and also says that Tom Whites son Tom Jr. was an agent as of 1960. I'd guess that James M. is Doc's namesake. If anyone can verify anything about Doc White (and his S&W) at this point, my money's on James M. Maybe Tom Jr. is still around. No telling what you might find.

Sorry. This is what you'll find. Interesting guy in his own right, though.

Obituary
James M. White, owner of the legendary Broken Spoke passed peacefully at home Sunday, January 24, 2021 at the age of 81.
James was born April 12, 1939 in Austin, Texas. He was a lifelong Austinite and 5th generation Texan. James' family fought for Texas Independence and generations all served as Texas Rangers and FBI agents but James' life took another path. His destiny was to own the greatest dancehall in Texas and there was no one more perfect for the job.James graduated from Travis High School in 1957.
In true patriot fashion James proudly served in the United States Army from 1961 to 1964. James was stationed in Okinawa and at Ft Sam Houston in San Antonio. He began dating Annetta Wells while he was stationed in San Antonio and married her on Sept. 15, 1966. After completing his military service James returned to South Austin and began construction of the Broken Spoke in 1964. Ever by his side was his darling, sweet wife Annetta of 55 years.
For the past 57 years James booked legendary musicians such as Willie Nelson, George Strait, and his childhood hero Bob Wills. "I imagined a place like no other, where people could come and have a good time and listen to country music, and after I built it I named it the Broken Spoke."-James White
James White is preceded in death by his mother Lena Fuchs, Father Bruce White Sr., stepmother Lou White, brother Bruce White Jr., grandson-in-law Stephen Dutton. He is survived by his wife Annetta Wells White, daughter Terri White, daughter Virginia "Ginny" White-Peacock and her husband Michael Peacock, grandchildren Ashley Dutton, Mollee Montague, James Lamar Peacock and Jackson Peacock. Great grandchildren Alex Espinoza, Brenn Espinoza, Stevie Grace Montague and Justus Dutton. Pallbearers are Don Green, Brian Hofeldt, Kevin Geil, Alex Espinoza, Bob Piekarski, Scott McHenry, Weldon Henson & Josh Lasseter. Honorary pallbearers are Rick Holloway, Allan Sanders, Bobby Dan Wood, Don "Winker" Emmons and Rick Leyh. In lieu of flowers please consider honoring his dream by continuing to support the Broken Spoke.
A viewing to be held Thursday, January 28, 2021 from 4:00-9:00 pm at Harrell Funeral Home. 4435 Frontier Trail Austin, Texas 78745. Services will be held Sunday, January 31, 2021 at the James M. White Ranch at 1:00 pm. Burial to immediately follow at Oak Hill Cemetery in Austin, Texas.

 

[Muley Gil]

So at the height of the "automobile bandit" era the 7 agents in San Antonio were sharing 4 revolvers? I'm betting Doc or Jomer or whoever wasn't waiting around to be issued a sidearm.

I reckon they shared revolvers, kinda like sharing cars. My money is on a number of privately owned handguns being carried.

 

[Buford57]

I reckon they shared revolvers, kinda like sharing cars. My money is on a number of privately owned handguns being carried.

Yeah, I find it hard to believe men with the background of Doc and Tom relied on the Bureau to supply them with sidearms.

 

[DARE]

Thanks

Many thanks to Bill Cross, Chuck Odom and Eliza Odom.
Eliza is an ASAC for the FBI in Portland field office.
Eliza was kind enough to send an inquiry to Dr. John Fox the FBI Historian about my Jomer C White vs James C White question.
There was no agent named Jomer C White, so I think that means my gun was owned by James.
Going to do a FOIA request for info on James C White.
I'm guessing if an FBI agent was going to use gun on duty the FBI would have information about it.
So what do y'all think? Mystery solved?