357 Mags in Nam

[BreakerDan]

I have seen several references to GIs using privately owned Magnums in combat in Vietnam.
Guess that they would have really nocked out the soft body armor the VC wore.

How prevalent was this and how did they get ammunition? I know one guy said he used the powder from 45 ball ammo and rolled his own.

 

[BreakerDan]

I have seen several references to GIs using privately owned Magnums in combat in Vietnam.
Guess that they would have really nocked out the soft body armor the VC wore.

How prevalent was this and how did they get ammunition? I know one guy said he used the powder from 45 ball ammo and rolled his own.

 

[john traveler]

I knew a couple guys in US Navy helicopter sear and rescue (SAR) that packed privately owned Magnums: an M19 and an M28, both in 4" and in armpit holsters. Ammo was no problem, as it was readily available at the PX. Navy regulations required carrying only .38 Special ball-tracer cartridges, but these wiseguys always packed Winchester-Western or Super Vel hollow points. The Navy designated the sidearms function as primarily emergency signaling, with personal protection as a last-ditch effort. Ball M41 was also available, but seldom issued to aircrew.

 

[Ranger325]

I don't know how prevalent they were, but Col Bull Simons wore a 4" Python in a shoulder rig on the Son Tay Raid.

Regards,

 

[redsfan2]

I was in country 69 to 70. I worked the DMZ with Golf 2/3. After the pull out, I went south to India 3/5 at An Hoa ...LIberty Bridge .. and the phu nons.

I ended up with a CAP unit off of hill 65, and we carried some off the wall stuff. I saw 1 guy who bought a .38 snub off of a CID Sgt. who came out to talk to us. That was the only Smith I saw in the field.

I saw several guys when I would get into the rear that had revolvers that looked to me like they were .38s but that about all I could tell.

I've heard of and seen a photo ( here ) of Smiths that were used by rats, but I never saw any of those either. I'm sure they were there, but like everything else in any war zone it depends on where you were I guess.

 

[nn]

In the year I was there I knew of one carried by a Marine aviator never used.

 

[toroflow1]

A friend of mine was an M-60 gunner and carried a 2.5" Python.

 

[fz4vgq]

My FIL served two tours of duty. He told me on his 2nd tour he carried a 6" S&W 28 Highway Patrolman. When he was to go back home he handed it off to another guy in his unit.

I'll talk with him this weekend to find out more specifics.

 

[mulehide9]

I was their very early...........1963..64. All I saw were model 10's. Seamed like every one had one. Illegal to have but no one said anything. Oh yea......I was a Saigon Commando.

 

[Texas Star]

In, "Flight of the Intruder", author Stephen Coonts, a former Naval aviator (A-6 pilot) armed his main character with a Combat Magnum. Jake Grafton had that gun in several books. The other guy who was shot down with him had a .45 auto.

I think this reflected what the writer saw on his carrier, and used himself. You can probably ask him, via his site.

While in the USAF, I saw several Naval aviators in our dining hall, as they flew through our base. They had what looked to be Victory models or M-10's. All had shoulder holsters.

I know that some units had S&W 9 mm autos, the M-39.

Officers could often buy what they wanted, as could some Special Forces types. I'd be amazed if some didn't wear .357's. An officer in my unit owned a K-38, which he wore on patrol in lieu of the issued Combat Masterpiece. He thought he shot the longer barrelled gun better.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The .357 Magnum didn't go away after the Vietnam war. The S&W Stainless .357 Magnum is still part of the standard weapons supplied to the U.S. Navy SEAL Teams.

 

[Texas Star]

Originally posted by ArchAngelCD:
The .357 Magnum didn't go away after the Vietnam war. The S&W Stainless .357 Magnum is still part of the standard weapons supplied to the U.S. Navy SEAL Teams.

I believe they have used both M-66 and M-686 examples. Does anyone know for sure?

 

[cowboy77845]

In 1966 one could take personally owned weapons to Viet Nam. I did.In 1968 privately owned weapons were prohibited. Some helicopter pilots bought 357s in the '65-'66 time frame and carried them in Viet Nam. I suspect many 357s remained there when pilots rotated.

 

[fyimo]

I served in the 4th ID in 1969 and we operated in the bush most of my tour. The Captain had a 45 Government and I think the was the only handgun in the whole company.

 

[BE Mike]

One of the loach pilots in my unit carried a Colt Trooper that his father sent him. Parents, especially those who were combat vets, routinely ignored regulations and mailed guns, ammo, booze, etc. to their kids. This highly decorated pilot was eventually shot through both legs. I understand that, thanks to his buddies, the Colt got shipped inside his cast along with him when he went stateside.

 

[sjstill]

I recall seeing a photo in American Rifleman years ago of an SF-type with a 4" Model 66 (?) on his belt.

 

[Walter Rego]

Well, not in Viet Nam but there is an interesting picture in the new Ruger Pistols & Revolver book by John C. Dougan. It's a couple of Marines in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic dated 5/13/65. They are seeking out a sniper, and one has a Ruger 6 1/2" .357 Blackhawk in his hand. You can't see what type of holster he was using unfortunately.

 

[Jeepnut]

In Frank Barnes' Cartridges of The World, reference is made to the .357 being quite effective against the body armour worn by Chinese Communists in the Korean Conflict, perhaps identical to that worn as hand-me-down's to Viets?...might be worth a starting point.

Hell, if it did well then, perhaps improvements in ballistics and projectiles can only lead one to assume a fairly decent performance in later conflicts?

 

[wjh2657]

I carried a S&W Model 19 from 63-66 with MACV. We were working with "Company" types and could get any kind of ammo we wanted. I wasn't issued a pistol (carried a scoped Winchester Model 70)so there was no restriction or issue of handgun type. It had a 4" barrel and I carried it in the standard issue shoulder holster for the 1911. I bought the pistol in the Exchange in Saigon.I never fired it(or even drew it!) in combat and brought it back to States with me when I rotated. Regretfully I sold it years later.

 

[BE Mike]

A buddy of mine was SF in VN. He had a model 19 that he let his counterpart use while he was in country. The story is that the ARVN kept flipping the cylinder open and closed with one hand and by the time my buddy was ready to DEROS the crane was sprung so badly that the cylinder couldn't be closed.

 

[Kamerer]

A well-respected senior figure on this forum has told me funny stories about .357's in his division in Viet Nam. Maybe KKG will come by and speak directly...

 

[Guest]

For Bryan;

I spent from Thanksgiving '69 to Christmas Eve '70 "In Country" with the 1st Cav Division as a 45B20(aka:Small Arms Repair Specialist) and was promoted to being the Division Small Arm Inspector about half way through my Tour - somebody had to get stuck with the Job.

When I arrived "In Country" and completed my week at the "First Team Academy" I was assigned to a place called Phuoc Vinh(aka:'Forward Area') while the rest of the 45B20s stayed in Bein Hoa(aka:'Rear Area') and these guys were true REMFs. When I arrived I was assigned as the NCOIC of the Small Arms Shop - for those who don't know it; in those days the Army considered anything from a .22rf to a 106MM Recoilless Rifle to be a "small arm" but before long I ended up being in charge of the entire 'Weapons Shop' which include Artillery and Fire Control Devices(early Computers).

Now, back to the subject of the original Post. I also found 11 Conex containers which were stacked from floor to ceiling with small arms of all sorts. One particular container was filled to pretty much over flowing with handguns of pretty much all shapes and sizes and conditions. I had been "trained" on the Smith & Wesson Model 10(had also purchased my 1st one of these before I left the CZ) and Model 15 during my time in Maryland and there were literally "bunches and bunches" of these. I also found a very nice S&W .357 Magnum "N" Frame with a 5 inch barrel. It soon became my personal "open carry gun" while I was around the Company area. I had managed to 'modify' a holster for a Victory Model to fit my new Magnum. I had a very good friend who would ship me a box of Magnums to me each month so I had something good to shoot in it at least, once in a while! The rest of the time I shot the standard issue Military 130grain, .38 Special Hardball. It was accurate enough but certainly not what you'd call a real "killer" of a round on the other end.

The '68GCA had been past by this time and the Army had decided that no personal firearms would be allowed to be returned to the US. It seems that someone had determined that this was part of the '68 Law. Before I left the Smith got damaged and was finally torn down for parts. At 19 I didn't know much about handguns probably because we never had one at home when I was a kid - rifles and shotguns but no handguns except for my .22 caliber pellet gun which I managed to shoot as much as I could afford.

Whatever happened to all those gun I don't know. The one thing I do know is I never got around to destroying them which is what I had been told to do when I arrived.

Except for the Model 10s and 15s - most of these were all US Property marked - the bulk of the revolvers seemed to be in .357 Magnum but we did have a couple of .44 and .41 Magnums and at least one .44 Special but I didn't have any real interest in these. There were also some old 1917s - both Colts and S&Ws - but we didn't have access to half moon clips and the full moon clips were still in the 'idea' stage. Besides, my 1911A1 was all the .45ACP I needed in those days.

 

[JayCeeNC]

Thanks for sharing your recollections, KKG.

 

[gene h]

I was in the 1st Cav 67-68 everybody had a backup or hideaway gun, saw just about everything you could think of; Rugers, Smiths,cut down M2 carbine and lots of derringers, one very large one that took 22 magnums. I carried a 1911 I had put together out of eight different pistols we had found somewhere. It was ugly but would really shoot.

 

[S&W38]

Before he retired from the USAF with 20 years and the rank of Major, an area man did a tour as a administrative officer in a military hospital somewhere in Viet Nam. During an earlier tour in Germany, he had bought a Colt Python. He took the Python to Viet Nam and wore that revolver to work every day. He said that his peers gave him a fair amount of razzing about wearing the Python, saying that they were Air Force hospital administrative officers, not B-movie cowboys or Army infantry officers.

Then one day a Viet Cong unit attacked and got inside the hospital. He found the Python useful as he and others held off the Viet Cong in their immediate area long enough for the Air Police to arrive and repulse the attackers.

Next day he wore the Python to work, as usual. His peers didn't razz him about the Python then or at any time during the rest of his tour.

I don't recall any further details; he told me the story in 1973, give or take a year.

 

[rayb]

I saw no .357's when I was there. The few helicopter pilots I was stood close to seemed to have a mixture of stuff, mostly Modedl 10 type revolvers. A few of my people had things shipped from home, one I remember was a very nice colt .32 with 2.5" bbl.

Never saw any of the "VC armor" where I was, a least none of the "VC" I saw had any such thing.

We were issued a Ruger standard model .22, 4" bbl, with our "tunnel kit".

rayb

 

[postman93]

While serving in RVN in 1970 I was assigned to 191st AHC, Gun Plt. The enlisted crewmembers were not issued pistols, just an M-16 or what ever other type of weapon we could trade for or scrounge. Every one of us had an odd assortment as our downed weapon. I thought I needed a pistol and had the chance to buy a Ruger 357 Blackhawk from a agency guy. He also had a Hi-power for sale. Being young I wanted the 357 so I got it with 3 boxes of Federal JHP. I carried it while flying for a couple of months and had just received the required paperwork from BATF to bring it home as a war trophy when a Captain offered me a deal that I could'nt refuse so I know it was still in country when I left in 1971. Mike

 

[Guest]

During my time "In Country" most of the Pilots I dealt with were either carrying M-1911A1s usually in a modified holster on their Survival Vest or nothing. I think the Vest was designed for use with a .38 with a four inch barrel. I did a fair amount of flying while I was there but since most of my time was spent standing behind a door gun I used an old style "Cavalry" Holster for the M-1911A1 that was on my web belt. I also carried another one behind my Right Hip with a 'Grip Clip' that a friend had sent to me when I was in the CZ. The 'Grip Clip' came home with me and ended up being fitted to my "Kustom" Detonics .45ACP while I was working for them in the '70s.

It's a "parts Kit gun" that I purchased and built and which spent some time with a Detonics Collector for several Years until his death and then it came home again.

 

[S&W38]

During the early 1980's, a then co-worker told me that he had bought or traded for a Ruger .357 Blackhawk while serving as a rifleman in a combat infantry unit in Viet Nam. After a month or so, he sold the revolver to another soldier. He said that his M-16 met all his needs for a firearm. Therefore the weight and bulk of the Blackhawk, holster and ammo, plus the daily maintenance required to keep the revolver combat ready, were not worth his time and effort.

 

[walnutred]

The only non issue side arm I personally know of being carried in Viet Nam is one carried by a old friend during his tour. It is a 1922 Browning he carried in a shoulder holster. Said he bought it in Nam and liked it because it was light weight and easy to carry.