357Mag First Time Loader - Advice Needed...

[Osprey_2012]

It's been said already, slow down. Don't worry about the 44 at the moment. Get your 38sp figured out and do about 250-500 of them with a load you like. Then start on the 357. Go slow and stop jumping ahead. This is dangerous stuff. It's fun but you can really get hurt. I suggest that you stop throwing money at this hobby and learn to use and understand what you have so far. If you keep up spreading yourself so thin you could get hurt or damage a good weapon. Enthusiasm is a good thing but slow down and take it easy. One caliber at a time. Get it down and then move on to the next. Reloading is not the time to multitask.

The above is said out of concern.

Thanks for the concern. Since I have only 100 rounds worth of bullets and primers for 38/357, I need to order more online and wanted to go ahead and get stuff for 44 as well since I know for sure I will need them later. I wanted to have them ready when I need them. As far as reloading, I will mainly focus on 38/357. Thanks.

 

[kenjen]

you can find a loading for unquie in every pistol round and alot of rifle and shotgun rounds, that is way it is called unquie. 3 powers every pistol reloader should have are unquie, 2400 and bullseye.

 

[Titegroups]

The other thing you need to consider is switching over to lead instead of jacketed. That's where the savings start adding up when reloading. Paying $20/100 bullets is nuts. For target shooting lead is the way to go. No need to drive the bullets hard to punch holes in paper.

 

[ruger-p94]

I concur with titegroups on going to lead. Put that $20 for 100 jacketed bullets to good use,..... for the same price in making lead bullets you will get 1000. The funny thing is they all go boom and make a round hole. Switching to lead will pay for itself in only a few months and then you are shooting almost for free the rest of the year. Not to many things in life are like that and as much fun...cheers

 

[Cerberus62]

While at Bass Pro Shop yesterday, I was deciding between Bullseye, 2400, and Unique (they have others but I knew nothing of them) but picked 2400 and seems like it was not a very wise choice for my situation. I plan to go back to BPS today and pickup 1lb of either Unique, or Bullseye or W231 (not sure they have this on the shelf). This is an hour drive one way so still debating about going today or not.

2400 is a great powder and not an unwise choice, simply not the most flexible powder given what you want to do. It will work very well in mid-range to full loads in the 357 and in full loads in the 38. It is also better with the lighter bullets than H110/W296. It is probably the most useful 357 magnum powder, giving consistent results over a relatively wide range of pressures and bullet weights.

H110/W296, they are exactly the same and use the same data, are designed to give the highest performance from straight wall cases at magnum pressures. They have a very narrow range of operating pressures (high) and work best with heavy bullets. They are the best powders for full magnum loads but the least useful for anything else.They are proven unsafe for light loads, giving hangfires and squibs when loaded too light or under light bullets.

Red Dot, Bullseye and 231 are all great for the 38 and I have used them all in 38's and midrange 357's with great results. You must watch for double charges with the lightest loads, they don't take up much space in the case. You will be happy with 231 in your 38's.

I load 38/357, 44Spl/44Mag, 45 ACP and 45 Colt, as well as 12 and 20 gauge shotshells, and I cannot imagine reloading without Unique.

I loaded my very first batch of 38's with it in 1980 and have never been without some since. It is the single most useful and easiest to work with powder for all of the calibers you want to load. Forget the complaints about smoke. All powders give some smoke, and flake powders lubricated with graphite give more. Lubricated lead cast bullets are smokier with any powder than plated or jacketed bullets. It's just part of shooting and the only people who complain are those who don't don't like to clean their guns or think shooting real guns should be like a video game.

The flexibility, economy, excellent ballistics and general easy going good nature of Unique far outweigh any perceived smokiness issue.

BTW, all of the powder selection criteria for 38/357 loads apply to any of the straight wall cases. They all work the same, based on case length and pressure. Shorter case, lower pressure, use a faster powder. Longer case, higher pressure, use a slower powder. The 9mm is the slight exception, only due to the combination of short case and high operating pressure. And Unique is fine for the 9.

 

[Osprey_2012]

The other thing you need to consider is switching over to lead instead of jacketed. That's where the savings start adding up when reloading. Paying $20/100 bullets is nuts. For target shooting lead is the way to go. No need to drive the bullets hard to punch holes in paper.

From what I've read, I was concerning about barrel leading with lead bullets and that's the main reason I did't bother to look at them or compare prices with jacketed ones.

Perhaps I should give them a try and see. In terms of saving from using lead bullets, I just compared prices from Xstreme Bullets for 500 pieces on 44 cal 240gr SWC hard cast lead for $55 to 240gr FP plated for $60 and that's only $5 difference. Am I looking at this correctly? Or are there cheaper lead bullets out there that I need to know? Thanks.

 

[Osprey_2012]

Thanks much Cerberus62 for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge. Really appreciate that. I don't mind getting a pound of Unique later but for now I just want to give what I have on hand a try first.

2400 is a great powder and not an unwise choice, simply not the most flexible powder given what you want to do. It will work very well in mid-range to full loads in the 357 and in full loads in the 38. It is also better with the lighter bullets than H110/W296. It is probably the most useful 357 magnum powder, giving consistent results over a relatively wide range of pressures and bullet weights.

H110/W296, they are exactly the same and use the same data, are designed to give the highest performance from straight wall cases at magnum pressures. They have a very narrow range of operating pressures (high) and work best with heavy bullets. They are the best powders for full magnum loads but the least useful for anything else.They are proven unsafe for light loads, giving hangfires and squibs when loaded too light or under light bullets.

Red Dot, Bullseye and 231 are all great for the 38 and I have used them all in 38's and midrange 357's with great results. You must watch for double charges with the lightest loads, they don't take up much space in the case. You will be happy with 231 in your 38's.

I load 38/357, 44Spl/44Mag, 45 ACP and 45 Colt, as well as 12 and 20 gauge shotshells, and I cannot imagine reloading without Unique.

I loaded my very first batch of 38's with it in 1980 and have never been without some since. It is the single most useful and easiest to work with powder for all of the calibers you want to load. Forget the complaints about smoke. All powders give some smoke, and flake powders lubricated with graphite give more. Lubricated lead cast bullets are smokier with any powder than plated or jacketed bullets. It's just part of shooting and the only people who complain are those who don't don't like to clean their guns or think shooting real guns should be like a video game.

The flexibility, economy, excellent ballistics and general easy going good nature of Unique far outweigh any perceived smokiness issue.

BTW, all of the powder selection criteria for 38/357 loads apply to any of the straight wall cases. They all work the same, based on case length and pressure. Shorter case, lower pressure, use a faster powder. Longer case, higher pressure, use a slower powder. The 9mm is the slight exception, only due to the combination of short case and high operating pressure. And Unique is fine for the 9.

 

[Osprey_2012]

Loading Data

So I read and looked through both manuals I have (Lyman 49th and Hornady 8th) for 357 load data for 125gr HDY XTP and both show no Win 231 data but both list 2400 which is the other powder I have and was told to use Win 231 instead to suit my situation as first time loader.

Found another online data source: Data.Hodgdon.com which lists the Win 231 data as follows:
Starting: 4.3gr @826fps
Max: 4.9gr @934fps
COAL: 1.455"

Since my range is 45 minutes drive away one way so I am planning to load 20 rounds of 357 using starting load: 4.3gr of Win 231. At the range, will shoot 10 rounds out of SW 686P 6" and the other 10 on 686P 2.5" barrel to see which shoots better in terms of recoil.

Any suggestion/advice before I start loading? Dies are set up for 357 but power meter has not. Thanks.

 

[Krogen]

Look again, my friend. That's not .357 data. While you are on the safer side, >always< be sure of the cartridge, bullet and powder when you're looking up load data. Please, PLEASE don't get them mixed up. You have to be right.

 

[Osprey_2012]

Look again, my friend. That's not .357 data. While you are on the safer side, >always< be sure of the cartridge, bullet and powder when you're looking up load data. Please, PLEASE don't get them mixed up. You have to be right.

Here's the link to the site and data I was looking at for .357 Magnum. What am I looking wrong here? Thanks.
Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com

125 GR. HDY XTP  Winchester  231  .357"  1.455"  4.3  826  13,300 CUP  4.9  934  16,300 CUP

 

[Krogen]

Yup. Are you loading .357 or 38 Sp?

 

[Osprey_2012]

Yup. Are you loading .357 or 38 Sp?

starting load for 357mag. OK then? thanks

20 of 357 brass have been primed and rim expanded. Verifying powder scale functionality at the moment to be sure I clearly know how it works.

 

[Swed]

oal 1455 is .38 spec, you are looking at .38 spec data.

 

[Osprey_2012]

oal 1455 is .38 spec, you are looking at .38 spec data.

Am glad I asked and thanks for catching that Swed. So I went back to the site again and config the spec and this is what I got this time.

125 GR. HDY XTP Winchester 231 .357" 1.590" 7.3 1335 33,800 CUP 8.5 1514 42,700 CUP

The COAL looks to be correct for 357 per the manuals I have.
7.3 gr of Win 231 is what I am planning on loading, Good to go? Any other concern with the provided data from Data.Hodgdon.com? Thanks.

 

[july1952]

Here's a good site if you want to see what other reloaders are doing:
http://www.handloads.com/

I've been reloading .357 for about 20 years and here's my favorite max load. Just be sure you shoot it out of a 357 frame that can handle the hot stuff, i.e. S&W 686 or S&W model 27 or 28 or Ruger GP100:
- 125gr speer JHP
- Federal nickel 357 cases - they have a slightly thicker head
- CCI 550 -Small Pistol Magnum primer
- H110 or W296 Powder - 21.0 grains

Make sure you get a heavy crimp on the bullet when you seat it. I seat the rim of the case at the top of the cannelure.

Hope this helps

 

[Osprey_2012]

Here's a good site if you want to see what other reloaders are doing:
http://www.handloads.com/

I've been reloading .357 for about 20 years and here's my favorite max load. Just be sure you shoot it out of a 357 frame that can handle the hot stuff, i.e. S&W 686 or S&W model 27 or 28 or Ruger GP100:
- 125gr speer JHP
- Federal nickel 357 cases - they have a slightly thicker head
- CCI 550 -Small Pistol Magnum primer
- H110 or W296 Powder - 21.0 grains

Make sure you get a heavy crimp on the bullet when you seat it. I seat the rim of the case at the top of the cannelure.

Hope this helps

Thanks for link and looks to contain lots of very good loading info.

I am only looking to do starting loads at this time (newbie). I confirmed from the link you provided the starting load is 7.3gr behind Win 231 so that's what I will be using. Thanks.

 

[Cerberus62]

So I read and looked through both manuals I have (Lyman 49th and Hornady 8th) for 357 load data for 125gr HDY XTP and both show no Win 231 data ...Found another online data source: Data.Hodgdon.com which lists the Win 231 data as follows:
Starting: 4.3gr @826fps
Max: 4.9gr @934fps
COAL: 1.455"

Since my range is 45 minutes drive away one way so I am planning to load 20 rounds of 357 using starting load: 4.3gr of Win 231. At the range, will shoot 10 rounds out of SW 686P 6" and the other 10 on 686P 2.5" barrel to see which shoots better in terms of recoil.

Any suggestion/advice before I start loading? Dies are set up for 357 but power meter has not. Thanks.

Hodgdon's HP-38 is Win 231. Go to Hodgdons Data Center, which you have already found, and cross check the HP-38/W231 data to verify it for yourself.

Then whenever you find HP-38 data you have found 231 data.

Clear as mud, right? This is the kind of thing that makes reloading seem so intimidating and confusing for the new hobbyist, but as your knowledge deepens you find much of the mystery removed.

 

[Osprey_2012]

Hodgdon's HP-38 is Win 231. Go to Hodgdons Data Center, which you have already found, and cross check the HP-38/W231 data to verify it for yourself.

Then whenever you find HP-38 data you have found 231 data.

Clear as mud, right? This is the kind of thing that makes reloading seem so intimidating and confusing for the new hobbyist, but as your knowledge deepens you find much of the mystery removed.

I've confirmed Win231 and HP-38 data to be exactly the same from Hodgdon's website. Thanks.

 

[Osprey_2012]

Powder Measure...

So 7.3gr of Win 231 fills 357 brass about half way, Can someone please help confirm this is about right? Just wanted to be very sure before I start closing them up. Thanks for all the valuable advices thus far.

 

[someguyfdl]

Do you have a scale to validate your powder charge?

 

[oberon]

You're scarin' me, bro.
True as gospel, reloading is a heads up operation. It does not need to be confusing or complicated.
The simple solution has the highest probability of being the correct one.
So... Don't get submerged in a wide array of load combinations. Instead, make up a few and try 'em out. Go easy and stay out of the upper end of the data until you are ok with what you have. Consider the charge weight range of your intended load, and proceed. Keep it simple and straight forward and you will be pleased with the result. Some of my best shootin' loads came directly from the low end of the recommendations. Get your feet wet and report back.
Relax.
Stop scarin' me.

 

[mr-mom]

What he said!

 

[Osprey_2012]

Thank you ALL...

Just wanted to say 'Thank you" for putting up with me while at the same time providing invaluable suggestions and advice to help ensure I got through this first challenge safely.

So I completed 20 rounds of 357 per the starting load data I provided a few posts back. I was using my progressive press as single stage as I wanted to check and double check all the steps.

I had to trash the very first round as I was testing/adjusting the crimp die and by the time I got it to within spec it didn't look right (bulging). I was happy with the 19 cartridges so took them to range.

I was really happy of how they turned out. I shot all 19 with SW 686P 6" barrel and the recoil was very manageable - almost like hot 38 special. I can shoot all day with this load. I will load more rounds using the same spec for now.

Here's the grouping at 7 yards. Remembered I only got into gun and shooting about 3 months ago. Overall I am very happy with the outcome and importantly could not have done it without everyone's help and support from this great forums. Thank you.

 

[Krogen]

Congratulations! You did it!! I remember the grin on my face when I fired my first handloads. That was, oh, quite a few years ago.... I quickly checked for all 10 fingers and no red leaks.

Did you count your fingers like I did?

 

[Osprey_2012]

Congratulations! You did it!! I remember the grin on my face when I fired my first handloads. That was, oh, quite a few years ago.... I quickly checked for all 10 fingers and no red leaks.

Did you count your fingers like I did?

Thanks and you've been very helpful.

My heart was pounding faster than normal as I was loading the chambers of my SW686 with these rounds. I had to take a few deep breath and made sure my grips were tight right before pulling the trigger. I didn't really know what to expect once the trigger was pulled. Once the first trigger was pulled - what a relief let me tell you. The 2nd, 3rd and the rest was all she wrote. I had a big grin on my face and said "You've done it!"

Thanks again for being patient with me.

 

[dazlin]

From what I've read, I was concerning about barrel leading with lead bullets and that's the main reason I did't bother to look at them or compare prices with jacketed ones.

Perhaps I should give them a try and see. In terms of saving from using lead bullets, I just compared prices from Xstreme Bullets for 500 pieces on 44 cal 240gr SWC hard cast lead for $55 to 240gr FP plated for $60 and that's only $5 difference. Am I looking at this correctly? Or are there cheaper lead bullets out there that I need to know? Thanks.

Again, SLOW DOWN!

When you are using a new bullet for the first time, just get 100. That way, if they don't work well for you you've lost little. But if you get 500 -1000, you will feel a lot of pain with the unusable bullets. The same thing applies to plated or jacketed bullets.

With regard to leading, that is a huge subject with lots of opinions. The bottom line is a) lead bullets may (or may not) cause leading, b) leading depends on many factors in your load recipe (i.e. the lead alloy, the hardness of the lead alloy, the bullet weight, the bullet style, the type and degree of crimp used, the powder type & charge, muzzle velocity, the gun it is used in, barrel length, and several other smaller issues), c) what may lead one model gun may not lead another of the same model, d) by reloading you can model the best load for your particular gun to give you the results you desire... if you do your part, and d) it can take a lot of experimentation (maybe hundreds of load variations) to find the sweet spot for your needs.

And that is why we reload.