360 sc
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rburg
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Because they say so!
The ultra light magnums have a number of minor problems. Under heavy recoil they tend to come back at you with a passion. Light bullets have less bearing surface inside the cartridge case to hold the bullet. You generally only get one or two shots before loads 3 thru 5 either start to pull themselves forward, or do so to the point where they lock up the gun.
You also have problems with high velocity lead bullet loads. Those really move under recoil.
If you don't believe me (I just had to test it for myself), get a micrometer or caliper and got to the range. Take a magic marker and number the rounds on the side, then measure and record them on a note pad. Fire one shot, then remeasure. Then put them back in the gun and do it again. By the time the bullet starts to stick its ugly nose out past the end of the cylinder, you will have become a true believer!
This problem is different/distict from the caution on using those rounds in a M19/66. That problem was caused by a thin forcing cone made of some questionable metal. With those, it just cracked the forcing cone.
But it really doesn't matter all that much. If you can handle a box of full house 158s, you're a hell of a man. Most of us show the common sense to fire a gun load or two and finish the day with wadcutters!
The ultra light magnums have a number of minor problems. Under heavy recoil they tend to come back at you with a passion. Light bullets have less bearing surface inside the cartridge case to hold the bullet. You generally only get one or two shots before loads 3 thru 5 either start to pull themselves forward, or do so to the point where they lock up the gun.
You also have problems with high velocity lead bullet loads. Those really move under recoil.
If you don't believe me (I just had to test it for myself), get a micrometer or caliper and got to the range. Take a magic marker and number the rounds on the side, then measure and record them on a note pad. Fire one shot, then remeasure. Then put them back in the gun and do it again. By the time the bullet starts to stick its ugly nose out past the end of the cylinder, you will have become a true believer!
This problem is different/distict from the caution on using those rounds in a M19/66. That problem was caused by a thin forcing cone made of some questionable metal. With those, it just cracked the forcing cone.
But it really doesn't matter all that much. If you can handle a box of full house 158s, you're a hell of a man. Most of us show the common sense to fire a gun load or two and finish the day with wadcutters!
Old Navy
Member
Actually those jell filled bike gloves that cyclist use will tame those airweight pistols pretty good. Tried them on my 360Sc with full house 158 JHP and had no problem.
The surprising thing with the gun is how little barrel rise it has, but it sure comes straight back into the palm hard as all get out. I shot one round w/o the glove and WOW did it jar the old hand bones.
Been thinking about buying a local shops 317 to go with it for some reason. Maybe shoot the 317 3" as trainer and just shoot the 360Sc couple times a year for punishment.
The surprising thing with the gun is how little barrel rise it has, but it sure comes straight back into the palm hard as all get out. I shot one round w/o the glove and WOW did it jar the old hand bones.
Been thinking about buying a local shops 317 to go with it for some reason. Maybe shoot the 317 3" as trainer and just shoot the 360Sc couple times a year for punishment.
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Bullet pull. Heavy recoil in a light gun will cause a light bullet to actually move forward out of the case, and in some instances, it can move far enough out to lock up the cylinder.
RAMS
Member
S&W told me last week the reason for the light bullet warning was premature errosion (flame cutting) of the Ti cylinder face.
I've heard of mag lead bullets pulling, of course, but not factory jacketed ammo. A guy I know says he shoots a lot of factory 110 gr. jacketed mag ammo in his 340 with no pulling problems. Maybe he is just lucky.
Dick, what brand of light, factory jacketed mag ammo have you noticed pulling enough to cause a problem?
I've heard of mag lead bullets pulling, of course, but not factory jacketed ammo. A guy I know says he shoots a lot of factory 110 gr. jacketed mag ammo in his 340 with no pulling problems. Maybe he is just lucky.
Dick, what brand of light, factory jacketed mag ammo have you noticed pulling enough to cause a problem?
pinkymingeo
Member
I guess I'm a mouse, because I don't shoot 357's from my 340PD and 360PD, at all. Just handloaded 125gr bullets at a chrono'd 930fps. Enough for me. Even so, I got my 360's cylinder replaced at about 2K rounds. Some galling was appearing on the face. Gotta love that warranty, though. Had the gun back in 8 days with a new cylinder.
rburg
Member
I can't even remember now. Pick any 110 or 125 gr 357 ammo and do the test. Just take a micrometer along with you and a magic marker. Number your loads, then measure the OAL of each, writing it on a notepad.
If you want to visualize the problem, make yourself a little display. Put 110, 125 and 158 gr loaded ammo on your loading bench (or any place else that pleases you.) Its almost hard to tell which is the light one and which is the heavier. They're all made from the same material. The extra weight is all down in the cartridge case. It represents additional bearing surface and length.
The caution to only use factory loaded ammo may also come into play here. Factory ammo, as we know, uses brand new brass with, hopefully, proper annealing and sizing. Only you have control of reloads. I would guess the quality control of reloads covers the entire map. If you've reloaded much, and you "co-mingle" your brass, you've got everything from once fired to 20 or so cycles. Some of the more worn even starts to get head cracks (different from crackheads, but the results are similar.)
Even with heavy bullets with long bearing surfaces, you won't get proper retention under heavy recoil. With heavy frame steel revolvers, its never been much of a problem. Now that the materials have gone space age, sometimes we think the recoil hurts you almost as bad as the target!
For rifles, we've all seen the formula on foot pounds of recoil, and how the .458 Winchester magnum delivers 4800 ft lbs at the muzzle. And the recoil is many multples of the lowly .30-06. I would think someone could use that same formula to rate handguns. It just won't be the manufacturer because it won't paint a pretty picture of their handguns.
There's meat for a gun magazine article for a guy who doesn't like S&W, or who just wants to show the truth. Maybe we need to survey our posters here for a math whiz kid.
I like these two answers the best. Just remember, the greatest minds of the day once thought the earth was flat!
S&W pushed the envelope with these super lightweight revolvers. The warning in the manual mentions Scandium frame revolvers, but the issue is more the titanium cylinder. There’s some butt talk in the manual that adds to the misunderstanding. “Scandium” is S&W’s trade name for an aluminum alloy that has traces of elemental scandium in the mix. The tiny bit of scandium makes the aluminum alloy substantially stronger. Titanium is another element known for its light weight and high strength and the cylinder on most, but not all of the “Scandium” frame revolvers is actually made from titanium.
My 342Ti (.38 Special +P) says to use jacketed bullets only when shooting +P loads. The problem there is bullet pull with soft lead. The cannelure on a jacketed bullet holds the crimp better because the jacket is harder than lead. A good crimp and a jacketed bullet is your friend.
My 296Ti (.44 Special) says to use a maximum of 200gr bullets. Again, the problem is bullet pull with heavier bullets. Heavier bullets tend to pull worse than light bullets (that old “objects at rest” thing). Think of a cement truck doing a hole shot!
The 360/340 warning is for .357 Magnum loads, not .38 Specials. 110gr .357 Magnums are notorious for plasma cutting even on steel guns and some of them are pretty hot. The bullet on these is relatively short below the cannelure, so there’s less travel before the bullet is out of the case which produces a pretty impressive fireball! Fast burning powders like 110 or 296 seem to accelerate the damage. If the surface of the titanium cylinders is damaged either from an abrasive or flame cutting, the material deteriorates quickly. I’m sure it can damage the frame too, or they wouldn’t put that flame shield above the barrel.
It’s not like this technology has been around for 50 years and it’s amazing stuff. 20 years ago, the idea of a 12 oz .357 Magnum J frame was just crazy talk.
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