S&W AirLite Sc J Frame: Is the .357 Magnum Overkill?

[tgmr05]

Is it overkill? No, but it is a perfect example of maximizing weight/power potential. It is one of, if not the best pocket revolver choices out there. You have the ability to shoot anything from mild 38 to full power heavy magnums. That is the beauty of this revolver, you have many options that will function with reliability across a very broad range of power and bullet choices.

Personally, I have fired many numerous magnums over the years in both 340/360pds and m&ps, yet I do not necessarily carry magnum loads much at all. Why? Simply because a good 38 +p or even a good hardcast wadcutter in 38 serves me just fine for most of the time/places I carry a pocket size revolver. I prefer a more controllable recoil impulse and quicker second/third shot repeatability. There are times when I choose to carry full bore magnums, but mostly when the concerns are about tougher 4 legged potential threats.

Like others have mentioned, if one does not need/want true magnum capability yet still want the light weight, you can use 442/642/637 38 revolvers and get titanium cylinders to reduce weight - of course the only new titanium cylinders available are magnum capable, so one must take care and make sure to only use 38 ammo or only reload to 38 special pressures in magnum brass. But you do get very close to 340pd weight..

 

[pasound]

I have a 60-15 38/357 3". The factory grips were useless - slipped and flipped in my hand with 38+P. I swapped them for Hogues, and then tried 5 158gr Federal 357 JSP. Big boom, no control whatsoever, even with big grips. I'll never shoot 357's in any j frame again. Remington 158gr +P LSWCHP FBI, and otherwise 158 SWC and 148 WC for daily loads in it, and all the other j's I own. I do have a quantity of Winchester 110gr STHP for the "best choice" short range HD loads. They are standard pressure velocity.

 

[burneyr]

I don't mean to repeat myself here, but why would Smith & Wesson keep on producing the Scandium J Frames chambered in the .357 Magnum if "Crimp Jump" was a real problem with these lightweight scandium J frame revolvers?

Honestly, don't you think that it would be a huge liability issue?

If there was an issue, don't you think that Smith would have put a huge warning message in owner's manual and or perhaps engraved a message on the revolver?

In other words, are you saying that Smith & Wesson is turning the cheek the other way??

If so, why would you even put your trust in Smith & Wesson to begin with?

Does character really matter when it comes to your personal safety?

Apparently, nobody here has produced any shred evidence that it's actually an "ongoing" occurence or is just mere forum chatter ...

Truth matters. But, if I AM wrong I will stand corrected.

Best,
Data

This is a very congenial site, and I'm not prone to be argumentative, but several of us have shared our personal experiences with this issue. If you choose to discount our knowledge that's up to you. However, I don't appreciate you insinuating somehow what I shared is some untruthful "forum chatter."

Smith & Wesson has acknowledged crimp jump, bullet pull, unseating, or whatever term you choose with their lightweight revolvers, and this warning appeared with the first 342 I purchased. I am uncertain if earlier Airweight manuals stated the same.

Smith views this as an ammunition failure not a failure of their revolvers. Certain types/brands/bullet weights of cartridges are prone to this occurrence as several of us have mentioned.

If our word isn't good enough, consult page 13 of the current owner's manual. Does this qualify as a "huge warning message in owner's manual?" I do believe the details are pertinent to the questions you pose.

I'll refrain from trying to assist you further. Sometimes the best lessons we learn are from experience. Leaving it at that. Best of luck to you with your revolver.

 

[Data]

Burneyr,
I hope this note finds you well and everyone who replied. I thought much about what has been said and I stand corrected! I am a bit of a straight shooter when it comes to stuff like this, but you and everyone should know that I really appreciate the input and shared information. I am just a guy searching for answers. This is a great forum and is loaded with an amazing amount of knowledge and experience. Much appreciated!
Best,
Data

 

[duane_wade]

I have a 360 AirWeight in my EDC rotation and I shoot nothing 125 gr Golden Saber through it other than handloads made to mimic that load. The Golden Saber are advertised at 1200 fps from a 2½" barrel, granted my 360 only has the 1⅞" barrel but with Hogue monogrips on it it is not punishing but very manageable recoil. Some people cannot handle recoil as well as others. But as others have going to .38 +P maybe what you need to do. There are some mild .357 158 gr that aren't bad but I like the 125s as they shoot to POA.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[cerescorubi]

I have tried dozens of holsters over the years with at least a dozen different revolvers and semi auto guns with good and some expensive Milt Sparks inside and outside holsters. I have tried wearing different clothes etc to accomodate them. Pretty obvious i diid not carry a 5" Colt 1911 in a pocket. After trying all of them I have come to the realization that the only carry option that I always feel comfortable with is pocket carry. With the P365 both 10 and 12 round magazines I have tried a leather appendix, 4:00 Leather and kydex and a pocket holster. They are all clunky compared to 340PD pocket carry for me. Again you can do whatever works for you but this works for me.

 

[hardluk1]

I find your trying to carry a 5" steel frame 1911 at all very funny specially with your fools reference to pocket carry but every one can read your reply and smile !!

I'm one guy that did not like milton sparks summer carry holster but I did sell it with out loosing money 3 weeks liter and never found owb to work that well for me , never held a handgun tight enough to the body to me but many love both . I tend to wear T shirts or square bottom button downs that fit well have a few nice square tail linen shirt for nights out with my wife but nothing thats sloppy or even loose fitting ether and no unneeded cover garments . I do have one owb that's seems to be a very good owb and that's a Tucker HF-2 but I rarely use it , Winter time in church or funerals is about it .

You also stated you have tried dozens of holsters over the years with at least a dozen different revolvers and semi auto guns with good and some expensive . Wow . lots of time ,maybe a year or better if added up waisted . My first holster was made by a tack shop owner that carried and it lasted 17 years about . It was adjustable for heigh and cant . When it was used up Comp-Tac Neutral hybrid filled my needs well for an alloy frame commander and years later then an showed MTAC showed when my wife said my old one looked bad ? I still wear it many years later. The MTAC is set up for my M&P's . Both are very adjustable for height and cant and work so well for my at 3:00 carry I still do the occasional elbow check to be sure I have my lw commander on me .

Your an airweight j frame fan boy so good luck with your choices just never hope you need to draw it and use it or need it when seated . I can draw with a seat belt on .

Oh your lighter trigger thinner no larger physically p365 that has a longer grip with extra rounds and quicker reload IF thats ever needed and it has a better choice of ammo that works well from a short barrel only a little heavier and that aids with split times . Time to move on .

Just for comparison -
Sig Sauer P365 vs Smith & Wesson Model 340 PD size comparison | Handgun Hero

 

[bakron1]

I carry a S&W 640 Pro Series and shooting 158 Grain 357 loads is a painful experience, I choose to carry Hornady CD 38SPL+P and the pistol shoots this round very well and I am very accurate with it.

I could have bought the 640 38SPL which also shoots the +P ammo, but the 640 Pro feels so much better in my hand and I also like a heavy gun because it gives me more control with recoil and accuracy.

I also have the Crimson Trace laser grips which gives me extra room for my pinky finger because I have large hands, I was never the type of person to use a laser to assist in my aim, but after using one for the past few months, it has changed my mind being I am 68 wear glasses and my eyes are what they use to be.

 

[Brian Parrish]

Skills not gear!

I have enjoyed this thread so far so thanks!
I think that a useful answer to your question would require a shared fighting philosophy and perhaps also a shared training philosophy.

Why a magnum anyway? So many of us are preoccupied with expansion and penetration which is fine with me, but expansion does have a purpose and there is a reason why the round has to go deep enough. What you are trying to do with a handgun is to open a hole in an artery or vein. If the bullet is so small that it passes by without doing that, well ya gotta try again. If it stops before it gets through to one, then try again. The current popular doctrine holds that one must have at least a four-inch barrel to realize any benefit from magnum velocity. Chris Baker, Lucky Gunner, says that j frame 38's in his testing could provide reliable expansion or reliable penetration, but not both.

Recoil? You can get used to anything. Do you believe that if you do not practice with exactly what you are carrying, that you will be defeated in a fight? Well, it is expensive and it takes time, but you will eventually learn to shoot your j frame magnum without flinching. In YOUR hands it will be a deadly weapon.

My opinion will always be informed by my philosophy that skill not gear is decisive. Your skills with your weapon inform and dictate your tactics. I like to say, "A gunfight is more fight than gun!

Short answer? Not overkill...
because I don't believe in "overpenetration",
because you can learn to control recoil, or at least learn how long it will take to recover and shoot again,
because somewhere in between 38 spl, 38spl+p, 38spl+p+, 38spl+p++, and 357 magnum there is a round that your revolver will shoot very well and it will be plenty powerful enough. That "extra" power ain't in the way.

 

[Shibadog]

Overkill? Maybe, depends on the shooter. Not what I’d choose, but hey we are all different. To me the best things about the Scandium guns are (1)light weight and (2) better sights than your average J frame. These little beast are so light and easy to carry there is simply no excuse for ever NOT carrying. Find a round YOU can hit with reliably and follow up with and you’re golden.

 

[Old cop]

Lets just hope you never find your self in a gun fight with a snubby only and no extra ammo . I find it funny you states the p365 was heavy and clunky buy it might be more about not give any other handgun an honest chance when carried in a proper holster but that is your problem . Now are you lasy . Maybe probably but again thats your problem. If your use to pocket carry ,, heck any iwb or owb would feel odd if you don't have the right holster and give it time like a couple weeks . Oh well .

I was in a 1974 gunfight w/my issued Colt Detective Special and one speedloader in a jacket pocket (Robbery Squad detective). I emptied the Colt twice before it was over, the suspect was down and I was able to walk away unhurt (luck vs skill). No modern 9MM pistols then, but one sure would have come in handy.

 

[Forefinger]

I love my light weight, easy to conceal carry 360PD ....until i shoot it. Full load .357 are brutal! I carry and practice with 38+p and some regular 38. Because of its small size and weight I'm inclined to carry it more often.

 

[CJH]

I will probably get flamed but I love my 340PD pocket carry with full 158 Grain .357 loads. I carry a 629 3" or 4" Mountain Gun when in the woods etc. and at one time tried to belt carry some concealed version of a 66, 65 or I have a nice 686 CS1. They were all more than I was comfortable with. For concealed carry I have tried everything over the last decades. 5" Colt 1911, Glocks and several J Frame revolvers in increasing strenght and decreasing weight from a 3" 60 with target sights to a 642. Some will call me lazy but to comfortably carry I almost never carry extra ammo. I tried to love my P365 recently but compared to a 340PD it seems so heavy and cluncky. If I am only going to have 5 shots I want them to be as powerful as possible. A .357 even out of such a short barrel usually has double the energy of even +P 38 Special. I can get off 3 shots very rapidly but with only 5 aboard I don't see any advantage to holding an empty gun so will go slow and careful if God forbid I have to. This is only my decision and others can choose whatever they are comfortable with but I am almost never without this light and wonderfully powerful gun.

I’m with you actually. Carrying extra ammo is an extra discomfort and process that reduces the odds of me carrying at all. I usually OWB carry a 7 or 8 shot 357 magnum or 6 shot 44 magnum. I can deal with the weight easily on one side of my belt but when I start adding items to the other side of my belt I start getting annoyed.

The odds of me getting into a gunfight are astronomically low. The odds of me getting into a gun fight and needing to / having time to reload are exponentially lower. If I’m making the choice to carry few rounds and no reloads I want those rounds to be stout.

I haven’t messed with the J frame scandiums but they appeal to me. Never shot one. If I can handle 44 magnum 305 grain rounds out of a 2 5/8 inch snub nose I feel like I can deal with 357 out of a j frame? I know it’s completely different. I just need to try it

 

[steelslaver]

I have huge hands, I don't mind recoil, I shoot my 500 and 45 colts regularly. I carry a 325. I have several air weight J frames. I prefer the 32 J frames for the 6th round. My J frame 431 in 32 H&R is great Then picked up a spare 32 H&R cylinder and made one of my new airwieght 38 Js into a 327 mag. The recoil recovery from it over a 32 H&R is just not worth it.

I can not imagine anyone not losing a bunch of 2nd shot time using 357 over 38s in a airwieght J frame.

I am not a high capacity freak, but, follow up shot ability counts

 

[gwpercle]

Having the option to use a 357 Magnum load , if you want too, is good !

Gary

 

[waffles]

Obligatory note that the 340SC I had was not a durable gun and met its end at a gun buyback after being broken and unrepairable.

That thing was absolutely punishing to shoot with .357, and most of the .357 that got shot through it was in the manner of "Hey (buddy or range officer I'm friendly with), wanna feel something REALLY unpleasant?". Didn't get much repeat business on that. Despite this I for some reason carried it with .357 ammo, but if I was in the market for a new one and had the option to save a couple hundred bucks with the .38 special "limitation" it'd be an absolute no brainer for me.

 

[Data]

@ Waffles

Obligatory note that the 340SC I had was not a durable gun and met its end at a gun buyback after being broken and unrepairable.

Ugh, sorry to hear that. Did you buy the S&W 340Sc new or used?

That thing was absolutely punishing to shoot with .357, and most of the .357 that got shot through it were in the manner of "Hey (buddy or range officer I'm friendly with), wanna feel something REALLY unpleasant?". Didn't get much repeat business on that. Despite this, I for some reason carried it with .357 ammo, but if I was in the market for a new one and had the option to save a couple of hundred bucks with the .38 special "limitation" it'd be an absolute no-brainer for me.

No doubt about it. It's a bone shaker for sure with (Federal Brand) full house loads. My particular Scandium (340PD/360PD) variation(s) have exceeded my expectations for durability and reliability. They are an absolute dream to carry, but a little painful to shoot, to say the least.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I’ve had the no-lock 340PD for ten plus years but keep +P in it & carry it in a pocket holster. Magnum rounds produce too much recoil for quick & accurate f/u shots, but everyone’s different.

One can post at length on this subject, but might not add anything significant to the above post. In a heavy gun, many .357 cartridges are clearly superior to the best .38 Special cartridges, but only for the first shot, if that. Yes, some shooters are exceptions to this statement, but I am not one of them.

 

[AJ]

I shot bullseye for over 54 years and IPSC for over 30 years. Funny thing is I developed arthritis in my right hand and thumb. I had a S&W 342 for about 15 years and it was my go to carry gun. Now when I fire it, I get shooting pain in my hand and thumb. And this was with a shooting glove on, can't imagine what it would be without the glove. So the 342 has found a new home. I replaced it with a Model 60 Ladysmith, much easier on my hand.

 

[steelslaver]

Some guys have had the integral to the frame style frame lug get to the point the cylinder would come off when ejecting. They have reported that S&W will not repair those. I could fix that. I would simply mill off the new style lug, drill a hole in correct location and install and stake in an old style one. . I already have 6 or 7 air weight J frames, but I would buy a couple with the messed up frame lug if they were cheap just to do it.

I have never been bothered by recoil, my hands are huge, for an idea my wrists measure 8 3/4" around. Most revolvers shoot lower for me than they do for most, but with light J frames firing powerful rounds my first to second shot time sucks. Bigger grips would help, but that kind of defeats the how purpose of light J frame guns, easy to carry and conceal.

I believe the light J frames can handle quite a few 357 mag rounds. I just fail to believe that ability trumps being able to get off what might be life saving 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th shots faster with less powerful rounds.