38/357 Load + COL + Starline Brass

[86ed]

My solution is to spray lube the cases. Pistol cases loaded with carbide dies do not need lube but it works. My LGS has their own proprietary case lube using an alcohol base for dispersal in a spray bottle but any good spray on case lube should work.

You may find your powder charge a bit light. I use 4.2 gn Tightgroup under a 148 gn HBWC in my 6" 686-4. Hodgson lists this as a +P load with a max 4.4 gn at 980 fps, and while I can't offhand remember the velocity it is lower than Hodgson lists (most of their loads are a bit optimistic in my experience). I load for a minimum 120 PF with an additional 8-10 PF as a safety margin so it is probably in the 850-900 fps range. In a .357 Magnum case velocity will be a fair bit lower again.

And Starline brass will last for years. I loaded an original 500 cases for almost 20 years to +P pressures before I bought some more to replace those that were splitting.

How are you ensuring the case mouth interiors are coated with a spray? I don't mind the stickyness of the full length sizing/decapping die, it's not that bad, the sticking in the expanding die really interrupts my flow though.

I have some Alcohol/Lanolin lube that works great but there doesn't appear to be a time efficient way to get it on the case mouth interior.

 

[86ed]

i reload 357 magnum using only Starline brass and Berry's 158gr FMJ-FP bullets.

I highly suggest H110 for use with 357 Magnum. That has been my powder of choice lately and I've been real happy with the results.

Now if you really want to use titegroup, if it was me, I'd start with 5.5grs. I think you'd be fine at 5.5 grs since there's only a spread of 94fps between the starting load and max load.

Word of extreme caution!!!
5.5gr of Titegroup is gonna be at the bottom of the case and if you accidentally double charge a case, it might be difficult to tell the difference between a double charge and normal charge. This is another reason why I suggest using H110 or similar, I also like using Blue Dot for 357 magnum. If I try to double charge 13.9 gr of H110 the case will overflow. 14gr of H110 will fill a 357 magnum case about 2/3rds full. Real easy to tell if there's powder in the case and a accidental double charge is a no-brainer.

You have Berry's FMJs? Or did you mean plated? If you meant plated, we're using the same projectiles.

At the moment not working on magnum-level pressures. I'm using 357 cases mostly to avoid crud ring in the cylinder. Thus, I'm more concerned about complete burning, low muzzle flash and low(er) noise. Goal is slightly more pressure than 38 special, so around 38 +P.

I've heard that argument regarding powders that require higher weight charges for a given velocity regarding the impact on case volume/double charge potential. However, I'm of the opinion that if you don't have you enough confidence to avoid double-charges, you don't have confidence in your process, tools or yourself. The solution isn't to rely on a failsafe like powder spilling out of the case, but to fix your process or tools until you are confident.

I find it analogous to those that won't carry 1911s in condition 1. If you don't have confidence that your firearm won't discharge without you pulling the trigger, your gun and/or you need repair.

 

[StakeOut]

In my 686-4 revolvers I use only 357 brass.this keeps the cylinder holes cleaner and less bullet jump if 38spl cases used.

I use a lot of Hornaday 148gr HBWC bullets and hard cast 158gr coated bullets from Summers Enterprises.

Under the 148gr HBWC is 3.6gr of Titegroup.The 158gr I load stouter with 5.5gr of Unique.

I seat the 158gr to the max .357 OAL 1.590" with a med to heavy rolled crimp in the crimp groove.

The 148gr HBWC gets a light rolled crimp over the top of the bullet.

My primers are whichever I can find the cheapest

I load on a Lee 4 Hole Classic Turret press using Lee 4 die sets and Pro Auto Disk powder measure.

 

[RGVshooter]

You have Berry's FMJs? Or did you mean plated? If you meant plated, we're using the same projectiles.

At the moment not working on magnum-level pressures. I'm using 357 cases mostly to avoid crud ring in the cylinder. Thus, I'm more concerned about complete burning, low muzzle flash and low(er) noise. Goal is slightly more pressure than 38 special, so around 38 +P.

I've heard that argument regarding powders that require higher weight charges for a given velocity regarding the impact on case volume/double charge potential. However, I'm of the opinion that if you don't have you enough confidence to avoid double-charges, you don't have confidence in your process, tools or yourself. The solution isn't to rely on a failsafe like powder spilling out of the case, but to fix your process or tools until you are confident.

I find it analogous to those that won't carry 1911s in condition 1. If you don't have confidence that your firearm won't discharge without you pulling the trigger, your gun and/or you need repair.

1... yes I use Berry's plated bullets I called them FMJ's but we're talking about the same bullet.

2. if you want to avoid carbon rings in the cylinder by shooting 357 magnum cases but not shoot 357 magnum loads then consider this load I'll share straight out of my Hornady 9th edition.

Hornady 158gr LSWC or LSWC-HP (lead semi wadcutter flat point or hollow point, it doesn't matter) They come in 300 round value packs labeled as Hornady "Frontier lead" sold at the Academy stores, LGS may have them but the best prices I found were online at MidwayUSA or Brownells.

Ok so Hornady 158gr LSWC

3.8gr Titegroup

COL 1.590"

Estimated fps of 850.

winchester small pistol magnum primers. Although I used regular small pistol primers and noticed no difference between the two on this particular load.

3... I never had a accidental double charge because I do pay close attention however did the guy next to you at the range pay close attention?

4... 1911 pistols carried in condition 1 are incredibly safe as long as they're carried in the appropriate holster. Another thing to consider guys. And this goes to everyone. Is put some thought about what style holster you use if you're going to open carry a 1911 pistol "cocked & locked". For example, would you feel comfortable standing in line at the grocery store standing behind a guy with a 1911 in condition one wearing a shoulder holster with the muzzle pointed straight back at you? LOL. The guy carrying knows it's safe, you know it's safe, I know its safe. but does average joe standing in line know? So that's my take on it. with the right holster they are very, very safe to carry in condition one...

 

[Kiwi cop]

How are you ensuring the case mouth interiors are coated with a spray? I don't mind the stickyness of the full length sizing/decapping die, it's not that bad, the sticking in the expanding die really interrupts my flow though.

I have some Alcohol/Lanolin lube that works great but there doesn't appear to be a time efficient way to get it on the case mouth interior.

I drop the cases into a plastic container, spray the lube and give the container a shake. I leave the cases a few minutes to dry then drop them into the case feeder tubes.

Instructions with the lube say to spray, shake, air dry then spray a second time, but I don't bother with the repeat.

I'm not sure how much lube gets into the case mouth but it works, no more sticking on either the resize die or the expanded button.

 

[Greenjoytj]

I wipe a Q-Tip in a dilute solution of Zippo lighter fluid and Imperial Sizing Wax. The Q-Tip gets wiped around inside the case mouth about ⅛" deep.
It make case expansion easier and I get very little brass adhering to the nose of the expander die. It was the brass rubbing off onto the nose of the expander plug that got me lubing the inside of the cases.
The lighter fluid evaporates fast leaving a very thin coating of sizing wax behind.

I rub straight undiluted Imperial Sizing Wax onto my lube pad and roll my revolver cases on the wax prior to sizing them. The Imperial Wax wipes off easily with a micro-fibre towel. I found I could get a thinner coat of wax onto the outside of the case by rolling on the wax coated pad.

 

[fredj338]

Col in a revo is generally not an issue. Load to the crimp groove. Me, i wont load bullets in a revo without a cannelure or crimp groove to rollcrimp into, especially with heavier loads.

 

[gwpercle]

Don't load them too long. Smooth sided plated bullets that have no cannelure or crimp groove can creep forward on you so untill you get a little experience with the 38/357 leave some room , .004 short of the cylinder face isn't a lot of room.
I taper crimp the smooth sided bullets in 38/357 by using a 9mm luger taper crimping die instead of the roll crimp that came with the 38/357 dies.
Gary

 

[86ed]

I wipe a Q-Tip in a dilute solution of Zippo lighter fluid and Imperial Sizing Wax. The Q-Tip gets wiped around inside the case mouth about ⅛" deep.
It make case expansion easier and I get very little brass adhering to the nose of the expander die. It was the brass rubbing off onto the nose of the expander plug that got me lubing the inside of the cases.
The lighter fluid evaporates fast leaving a very thin coating of sizing wax behind.

I rub straight undiluted Imperial Sizing Wax onto my lube pad and roll my revolver cases on the wax prior to sizing. The Imperial Wax wipes off easily with a micro-fibre towel. I found I could get a thinner coat of wax onto the outside of the case by rolling on the wax coated pad.

I ended up trying some Lee resizing lube via applicator on the case mouth. Solve the expander sticking as well as made the projectiles easier to seat.

 

[86ed]

Don't load them too long. Smooth sided plated bullets that have no cannelure or crimp groove can creep forward on you so untill you get a little experience with the 38/357 leave some room , .004 short of the cylinder face isn't a lot of room.
I taper crimp the smooth sided bullets in 38/357 by using a 9mm luger taper crimping die instead of the roll crimp that came with the 38/357 dies.
Gary

Ahhhh, have 9mm taper crimp dies. That idea escaped me.

 

[Warren Sear]

I ended up trying some Lee resizing lube via applicator on the case mouth. Solve the expander sticking as well as made the projectiles easier to seat.

it seems doing that would also make the bullets more able to jump their crimp.

I have never had to lube case mouths in order to seat bullets. I think that is solving the wrong problem.

 

[86ed]

it seems doing that would also make the bullets more able to jump their crimp.

I have never had to lube case mouths in order to seat bullets. I think that is solving the wrong problem.

Potentially, but a cylinder of the load 5 rounds fired 6th showed unchanged COL. Legitimately brought calipers to the range.

The lube was to solve the cases sticking on the expanding die, the bullet seating aspects were just a bonus. If I don't need to spend the time to wipe off lube no reason to. This particular brass is thick and stiff. It doesn't help that my plated projectiles are .001 over normal 357 jacketed bullets. The brass is tough to bell and the bullets are a definitely an interference fit. I don't have this issue with any range brass, this seems to be unique to Starline.

Though, on the plus side, the starline brass can almost be ejected without extractor.

 

[gwpercle]

Ahhhh, have 9mm taper crimp dies. That idea escaped me.

And it works like a charm to boot.
Gary

 

[bigggbbruce]

covered...

 

[Greenjoytj]

I ended up trying some Lee resizing lube via applicator on the case mouth. Solve the expander sticking as well as made the projectiles easier to seat.

Watch the LEE sizing lube it will rust your die in a week if you leave it on, it's a water based lube. I learn that the hard way.

 

[86ed]

Watch the LEE sizing lube it will rust your die in a week if you leave it on, it's a water based lube. I learn that the hard way.

Just checked them out. No signs of rust on mine and it's been a while. Maybe it's hygroscopic and it's a factor in more humid environments?

 

[Nevada Ed]

When and if you use the CFE or Unique powder in the magnum cases for your testing,
I had good luck with the Xtreme 158 plated for accuracy at +/- 1090fps
for my light target loads.
I stopped at 1180fps for my 357 full target loads due to increasing recoil and muzzle jump.

If you want X-Lite target loads with the 357 case I have gotten Unique powder
down to 976fps in my 6" 686 revolver.
Bullseye up to 918fps and Trail Boss down to just 788fps with a
Sutter Cast 158 wc with a OAL of 1.58".

Stay safe.

 

[sniper]

When loading plated bullets (Berry's) I chamfer the inner edge of the resized/trimmed brass, which eliminates cutting. I then taper crimp just enough to remove the die's (RCBS) "M"-style enlargement, and maybe just a smidge more, to move the outside of the case mouth in, so there is nothing to hang up during a reload. Pulling a bullet showed a shallow, indented ring around the case mouth area of the bullet, but no cutting. I'm going to try less of a crimp, because I wonder if that ring may not do much for accuracy, although at close ranges, hardly a problem.

Recently, I couldn't find my preferred Winchester 357 brass, so I bought 100 from Starline, due to its reputation. (And availability)
I found that probably 30% were over or under the recommended trim-to length in all my manuals. If I trimmed the short ones all to the same length for consistent crimp, they would be much shorter than my other brass. I figured maybe I had a bad lot of cases.

I emailed the company, and received the answer that SAAMI "allows "them to turn out brass +- .010...but they would be happy to replace all out-of spec brass.

None was...close, but not more than .010" over or under, so, I'll trim and use what I can, and use the shorties for snake shot loads.

 

[86ed]

When loading plated bullets (Berry's) I chamfer the inner edge of the resized/trimmed brass, which eliminates cutting. I then taper crimp just enough to remove the die's (RCBS) "M"-style enlargement, and maybe just a smidge more, to move the outside of the case mouth in, so there is nothing to hang up during a reload. Pulling a bullet showed a shallow, indented ring around the case mouth area of the bullet, but no cutting. I'm going to try less of a crimp, because I wonder if that ring may not do much for accuracy, although at close ranges, hardly a problem.

Recently, I couldn't find my preferred Winchester 357 brass, so I bought 100 from Starline, due to its reputation. (And availability)
I found that probably 30% were over or under the recommended trim-to length in all my manuals. If I trimmed the short ones all to the same length for consistent crimp, they would be much shorter than my other brass. I figured maybe I had a bad lot of cases.

I emailed the company, and received the answer that SAAMI "allows "them to turn out brass +- .010...but they would be happy to replace all out-of spec brass.

None was...close, but not more than .010" over or under, so, I'll trim and use what I can, and use the shorties for snake shot loads.

No issue cutting the plating, but it is a tougher seat than all other brass IME.

The crimp doesn't seem to be so important on revolver loads until you get into the magnum loadings and the cylinder becomes a bullet puller. My bullets don't move and the target gets perforated where I intend it so don't obsess about the crimp so much.