38/44 Ammo, too shoot or not to shoot? WITH PICS.

[dacoontz]

Posted a picture of this ammo in an earlier thread. Got the ammo today and I think this stuff may be too expensive to shoot, but I really want to load it in my Heavy Duty and see if I can shoot through a frying pan. Any opinions on the value of this full box of vintage ammo?

 

[smith17]

I think it would break a cast iron frying pan. I would say it is in the $30-50 range.
Ed

 

[mod34]

Do you plan on your house being invaded by frying pans??

....so, I'm walking down a dark ally and am approached by two rough looking frying pans..........

 

[Beemer-mark]

....so, I'm walking down a dark ally and am approached by two rough looking frying pans..........

Profiling is WRONG.

 

[moosedog]

I may be wrong, but I don't think that is 38/44 ammo. I think that is called "metal piercing 38.

If the frying pan is made in China, you could probably kill it with a wadcutter.

 

[BUFF]

If you just bought the ammo, then it is worth whatever you paid for it.

If it were me, I'd probably shoot 5 or 6 rounds to see what it is like, with at least one into your frying pan. Then, save the empties; put them back in the box.

 

[Sebago Son]

If the box is complete, it will be worth alot more left that way then if you fire even one round.

Shooting this ammo will not be spectacular. I've used a good deal of it in the past an it's thoroghly unremarkable.

You want to shoot something jazzy, try a box of SuperVels.

Who would eat off a Chinese Frying pan? Best shoot it just to be sure.

 

[sheriffoconee]

I remember those...I had some on a Bianchi speed strip "in case I wanted to reload to shoot through something"....at least, that was my thinking at the time. They also came in a ..357 version....Troopers polished them up and carried them in the cartridge loops on their belt....

I found one of my old 38 KTW rounds the other day as well...I have one left, I might as well shoot a frying pan with it too

 

[pbslinger]

My friend and I shot an iron frying pan with a cap and ball revolver and it went right through it. It was in 1972, so the odds are good it was a USA made skillet.

I'd save the ammo.

 

[dacoontz]

In all fairness I would also be willing to shoot through a skillet, wok, dutch oven, or other cooking utensil without any prejudice or bias. I think I will actually save the ammo for awhile and see what else I can find just in case it becomes valuable. I have some other "hi-velocity" ammo coming my way that I believe is more modern and still likely to pierce some metal. Thanks for the opinions, I think.

 

[Dave T]

I may be wrong, but I don't think that is 38/44 ammo. I think that is called "metal piercing 38.

moosedog is right, that's just a 38 Special load variation. I may still have a box of it. I know I used to.

38/44 ammo was labeled as just that, "38/44" or as 38 Hi Speed. I've read it was rated as shooting a 158g bullet at about 1100 fps. Think of it as the +P+ of the 1930s. (smile)

Dave

 

[rburg]

Send it to Bill Pattison, he'll take proper care of it. We can then name his as the official historian and caretaker of any .38/44 ammo anyone comes up with. He won't mind, I'm sure.

 

[cxm]

Fairly Valuable

The a full box 38 Spl. metal piercing ammo would bring about $75.00 at most gun shows... on an internet auction it might well bring more...I'd say considerably less if the box is not full...

I suggest you hold on to it... it isn't likely to lose any value, and probably will appreciate....

FWIW

Chuck

 

[smith17]

One of the most popular on-line auctions is Ward's Collectibles. Below is one of the last auction's items which received no bids, despite the fact that it is a not-often-seen item. Did the fact that it is missing a couple of rounds impact it? Maybe, but old ammo isn't going for quite what most folks think it should go for at the present time.
I think their next auction starts the first of February and it is a good place to pick up some very desirable ammo to go with a particular gun. Just FYI.
Ed

https://www.wardscollectibles.com/viewitem.php?item=2648

 

[smith17]

I would also like to respectfully disagree with the notion that this is not ".38/44" ammunition. A Western Rifle and Pistol Ammunition Handbook from 1935 lists their Super-X .38 Special Metal Piercing round, 150 grain Conical at 1,050 fps. I have one of the pre-war boxes and it specifically lists the Smith & Wesson .38-44 revolver. Winchester's load of the same period is rated at 170 fps higher than the Western load, a few years before they merged.
Ed

 

[Dave T]

smith17,

I was basing my comments on having had a box of that stuff at one time and not remembering any mention on it of being a 38/44 load. Likewise I've seen different boxes labeled "38/44" and "38 HiSpeed". If your catalog claims this stuff is 38/44 ammo then I was wrong. If it's OK I'll beat myself up later. (LOL)

Dave

 

[smith17]

Dave:
No reason to beat yourself up. By the time dacoontz' box of ammo was manufactured (post 1961), the sales of the N frame .38 special was insignificant and there was no reason to mention it on the ammo box. Plus, the N frame wasn't the only revolver from S&W able to handle that load in the 60s. I find it interesting that 30+ years after its introduction, that ammo still was within about 10fps of the original Western load.
Ed

 

[dacoontz]

Send it to Bill Pattison, he'll take proper care of it. We can then name his as the official historian and caretaker of any .38/44 ammo anyone comes up with. He won't mind, I'm sure.

Good thought, but I think I will keep it for myself and not shoot it unless I get overcome by some home invading frying pans. Hey, it could happen. And I am sure Bill will understand if I don't package them up and send them his way just yet.

 

[1Aspenhill]

Daniel,
Anytime you want to send it go ahead, but I have some myself also:

Dick, good idea!
Ed, I agree with you. I think that even though they stopped making 38/44 head stamp ammo, that the dogbone 38 Special was still hotter than what they started with.
Bill

 

[rburg]

He's so easy. Just a little bait and we get a photo worth drooling over!

 

[Dave T]

Do any of you guys know if there was also a standard pressure loading of the metal piercing round?

The box I had I got when I was a young deputy sheriff. I thought they would be just the ticket for my off duty gun, a fairly new on the market Model 60. I was carrying a M28 on duty loaded with full bore Magnums and wanted something with a bit more punch in the stainless Chief's Special (this was a few years before SuperVel and the whole +P business came along).

Anyway I found that box of 38 Special Metal Piercing rounds (think they were Western) and figured I was on to something until I shot some. They felt just like the standard 158g RNL loading. Figured the guy who sold them to me saw me coming and I didn't do much more business with him. Kept that mostly full box of 38s for years before probably finally giving it away.

Dave

 

[dacoontz]

Daniel,
Anytime you want to send it go ahead, but I have some myself also:

Dick, good idea!
Ed, I agree with you. I think that even though they stopped making 38/44 head stamp ammo, that the dogbone 38 Special was still hotter than what they started with.
Bill

So pretty.

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
Please tell me that ammo is not "Antique" because I used that type ammo but in the .357mag. caliber in the 1960s.
Jimmy

 

[flagman1776]

I had a bunch of loose rounds... 38 & 357 from the Dept. I was told to use them up for practice... after shooting one in a M36, I put the rest aside for zombie killing with my M27. The opportunities to kill zombies are rare so I've still got the rest of them.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Go to Washington, DC. Apparently we have 535 zombies up there...

 

[DWalt]

Let's look at something else - the frying pan. Good cast iron frying pans are fairly valuable, and I wouldn't want to destroy one in such an experiment. If you have to do something like this to quench your curiosity, please go to the Goodwill store and find another target.

 

[Sebago Son]

Mr. Frying Pan says....

"Please Don't Shoot Me!"....

 

[David LaPell]

Makes me wonder what some of my 170 grain #358429 SWC's behind 12.5 grains of 2400 in .38 Special cases (.38-44 load) will do! I think I have some old cinder blocks and some scrap steel lying around including a frying pan. Hmmmmm............

 

[DWalt]

That load would probably be close to 1200 ft/sec, depending upon your barrel length. The old (1950s-60s) Lyman handloading manuals always used between 12 and 13 grains of 2400 as the recipe for hefty .38 Special loads (they did not refer to them as .38-44 loads - just as "for use only in heavy frame revolvers"). They never recommended 2400 for use in standard .38 Special loads.

By the way, Remington also used to load what was essentially a .38-44 metal piercing bullet cartridge, they called it the "Highway Master High-Velocity" loading. It used a hard, lightweight alloy bullet with a sharp point, not lead or jacketed lead. Possibly die-cast Zinc? I think it was intended for law enforcement use only. I have a full box of them from the 1950s, but have never fired one, at a frying pan or anything else.

 

[medxam]

The real "good old stuff" is now over$200.00 dollars a box. I just bought some for photographic purposes!

medxam