I have been toying with the idea of converting a shooter grade prewar 38/44 into a 44 Special. Has anyone done a like conversion. Hamilton Bowen seems to be the "go to" guys for this type project. Do you guys have any idea what their timeline for such a project would be? I figure cost would be in the $1100-1400 price range. Anybody had recent experience with a similar project? Your thoughts!
38/44 Conversion to 44 Spl
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tlay
US Veteran
My thoughts are sell the 38/44 to someone who wants an original 38/44 and buy a 44 special. Not trying to be a smart a** but there are a lot of people on this forum including me who will buy an unaltered 38/44. It's your gun but think about it.
rburg
Member
I read these threads and always wonder why? Without much effort you can come across a 44 3rd in that same price range. I know it takes some time and effort, but probably not much more than sending your gun off and waiting. I have no idea what final configuration the OP is looking for, but without too much looking you can probably locate the configuration you're looking for. Maybe the exception would be a long barrel gun because 3rd Targets are really expensive. The OP here didn't specify Heavy Duty or Outdoorsman so I just kind of assumed Heavy Duty. Or maybe call Dave Keith and see if he will part with one of his creations.
If the OP is looking for a 4" 44 Target, things get a bit more complex.
If the OP is looking for a 4" 44 Target, things get a bit more complex.
I have a Bowen 45HD built from a transition 38-44 5". This was the description on his website in November 2008:
Smith & Wesson .45 Colt Heavy Duty Model: Built on an early 5-inch post-war gun with the long action and its especially finely shaped hammer. End-float, yoke/ejector alignment and timing adjusted as needed. Tuned and taller front sight blade pinned in and regulated for Black Hills cowboy type ammo. The original barrel is re-bored and the cylinder re-chambered with our small-body/small-throat re-armer for best performance. Completely rebuilt and hand filed and finished. Hammer and trigger re-colored. A more elegant and graceful gun if less purposeful looking than the 4-inch guns. Price is $2095 with delivery early in 2009.
The Bowen 45HD arrived in February 2009. So only three months for that one. But it probably had been a work in process for months before he posted it for sale. I haven't seen 45HD's posted anywhere for quite a long time. I wonder how many he made....
My other Bowen is a pre-war 38-44OD converted to 44HE 3rd Target 5" with Fishpaw ivory stocks, a highly detailed project that took over a year to complete. Not by me, but by forum member 230grfmj, who sold it to me five (5!) years ago next week. It's a one-of-a-kind beauty!
Then there's keith44spl....
Smith & Wesson .45 Colt Heavy Duty Model: Built on an early 5-inch post-war gun with the long action and its especially finely shaped hammer. End-float, yoke/ejector alignment and timing adjusted as needed. Tuned and taller front sight blade pinned in and regulated for Black Hills cowboy type ammo. The original barrel is re-bored and the cylinder re-chambered with our small-body/small-throat re-armer for best performance. Completely rebuilt and hand filed and finished. Hammer and trigger re-colored. A more elegant and graceful gun if less purposeful looking than the 4-inch guns. Price is $2095 with delivery early in 2009.
The Bowen 45HD arrived in February 2009. So only three months for that one. But it probably had been a work in process for months before he posted it for sale. I haven't seen 45HD's posted anywhere for quite a long time. I wonder how many he made....
My other Bowen is a pre-war 38-44OD converted to 44HE 3rd Target 5" with Fishpaw ivory stocks, a highly detailed project that took over a year to complete. Not by me, but by forum member 230grfmj, who sold it to me five (5!) years ago next week. It's a one-of-a-kind beauty!
Then there's keith44spl....
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keith44spl
Member
.
As Burg says,
Sometimes a man has to do what he jest wants to do....
Outdoorsman now a 5" .44 Special
A HD, now a 3" .44 Spl.
Another HD, now a 4" .45 Long Colt
With a few more scattered about here and there.
.
As Burg says,
Sometimes a man has to do what he jest wants to do....
Outdoorsman now a 5" .44 Special
A HD, now a 3" .44 Spl.
Another HD, now a 4" .45 Long Colt
With a few more scattered about here and there.
.
Dig those pre-war magnas!
crofoot629
Absent Comrade
Hamilton Bowen is something like a year wait and very expensive.
You could buy a pre 21 for what Mr. Bowen charges.
I know because I asked.
Emory
You could buy a pre 21 for what Mr. Bowen charges.
I know because I asked.
Emory
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
I had it done in about 1990. First I had ran across just a model 21 5" barrel at a gunshow a few years prior. Kept my eyes peeled for a cheap HD. I found one in 4" in about 80% for around $165s in about 1985. I had a gunsmith friend rechamber the clyinder to .44 special and swap barrels, nothing else, no refinish. This one I might get refinished some day but I am not in a huge hurry to as I own 7 fine various .44 specials. This one shoots fine and is my knock around gun that I carry a lot on quad rides etc. I am showing it with stags but have the original grips. I dont have that much in the gun the way I done it, also it was many years ago and my smith wasnt a big name guru. I doubt I have a total of $300s in it.
Now would I do it again? Not if I could find a nice 24-3 or similar. Not at what guru`s want to do it. That is not unless you are well heeled and dont need excuse`s to lay out the money for a personnal project that you get satisfaction out of, but you should know up front you wont get your money out of it. Many years ago I also had a .357 blackhawk converted to .44 special. There too it didnt cost near what it would today. Here they are.
Now would I do it again? Not if I could find a nice 24-3 or similar. Not at what guru`s want to do it. That is not unless you are well heeled and dont need excuse`s to lay out the money for a personnal project that you get satisfaction out of, but you should know up front you wont get your money out of it. Many years ago I also had a .357 blackhawk converted to .44 special. There too it didnt cost near what it would today. Here they are.
I'm in the 'buy-the-gun-you-want' camp rather than cutting up an original something else. Have Bowen do a spiffy tightening, action job and/or re-finish if you want a showpiece or accurized gun. But why deplete an already limited and fixed supply of original guns to make into something else that already exists?
I am fortunate enough to have both had several guns converted and also have several originals. The converted guns came first. For the last 40 years ,I have had,off and on, guns off to various gunsmiths being "worked" on or customized to something else or to be better for the intended purpose or use. At first it was 45 Gov'ts to Swenson, Heinie, Brown, Novak, and Bill Laughridge at Cylinder and Slide. Revolvers went to Tom Killhoffer and Andy Cannon, as well as Larry Kelly. Then the caliber conversion struck, fueled by the cover shot of an Ivory stocked HD converted by Hamilton Bowen on either American Handgunner or Guns{memory escapes me}. I could now have my 45Colt fixed sight N-Frame service revolver,what's not to like. At the time 38-44 HD's were cheap and not very much in demand by collectors, off several went to Hamilton for conversion to 44 Special and 45 Colt. With these in hand the interest was awakened for originals and the hunt was on. One only has too look at Onomea's and Keith44Spec's conversions to appreciate how neat they really really are. The same reason men and women "customize"cars is the reason we customize guns, to have exactly what we think is the best, and quite frankly ,that is reason enough. I won't argue whether it is a sound dollar value, only that it is very enjoyable for those of us that do it. Right now I am heading to the range to shoot my 1949 Win. Model 70 customized by Mike Lau of Texas Brigade Armory to duplicate the USMC Vietnam era sniper rifle complete with an Inch and one half 8 power Unertl scope . Gentlemen ,if it brings you enjoyment and peace of mind in this very tense world and time we live in, then it is a good thing.
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Green Frog
Member
My suggestion would be to "toy" with the idea for a bit longer and perhaps look around for the equivalent gun either already converted or as a factory model so you can see the financial implications of your proposal. In the same time and for the same money, you might be able to find the same gun available on the market. As others have said, what you want is/was a factory model and what you have is a fairly desirable piece in its original configuration. I used (and highly recommend) Andy Horvath to build "Project 616" for me, and used a Model 66 no dash I already owned as my "donor gun." I have absolutely no regrets, but if I hadn't gotten in a bind for timing would probably bought and used a 66-1 instead. Note that these are at least one or two tiers lower on the desirability and collectibility scale than your proposed 38/44.
You asked about the time frame... this is another consideration. Expect to wait a minimum of 6-12 months to have done what you wish. Project 616 took just over 6 months and most knowledgeable folks tell me this was a relatively quick turn around. Both HB you mentioned and AH I mentioned have done many of this conversion and are kept busy doing similar work pretty much every day.
Bottom line is that you have to decide whether the end product is worth the time and money it is going to cost you, and the additional value of the donor gun. If you only have a mild interest in owning this variant or are in a hurry to have it, I would advise against it... if you really want this gun just this way and are willing to devote the time and money to own it, I would say go ahead. It's your call.
Froggie
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/260686-project-616-a.html
Tom:
Your Bowen .44 is an Exceptional gun !
The grips are amazing as well !
I kick myself on a regular basis for passing on it !
Jerry
Your Bowen .44 is an Exceptional gun !
The grips are amazing as well !
I kick myself on a regular basis for passing on it !
Jerry
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S&WIowegan
US Veteran
This question comes up all the time. You will hear from those who weep over the destruction of an old piece they wouldn't give a nickel for. Then you hear the "it ain't cost effective" crowd. Then comes the "the you can always find just what you want crowd" but believe me it's not always that easy.
I have only had one conversion done myself. It is an Andy Horvath .357 Blackhawk to 4" .44 Special done 20 yrs. ago....Ruger was not making .44 Specials and didn't until a distributor commissioned some recently. The .44 Special created by Bowen that Gilabender shows was built for fun and because you cain't hardly ever find one.
I own 4 Bowen HD conversions(3 45s and a .44 Special) which I bought already done from others. See I'm a guy who doesn't like to wait.
So when all is said and done, do what makes you happy and to heck with what any of us think!!
I have only had one conversion done myself. It is an Andy Horvath .357 Blackhawk to 4" .44 Special done 20 yrs. ago....Ruger was not making .44 Specials and didn't until a distributor commissioned some recently. The .44 Special created by Bowen that Gilabender shows was built for fun and because you cain't hardly ever find one.
I own 4 Bowen HD conversions(3 45s and a .44 Special) which I bought already done from others. See I'm a guy who doesn't like to wait.
So when all is said and done, do what makes you happy and to heck with what any of us think!!
Doug M.
Member
It will take well over a year, in part because the folks who do the barrel boring for Bowen are backed up. I spent the $$ to convert a 4" 629-4 to 45ACP. It's too heavy for the purpose, and I might have been able to find a 625-4 MG in that time for (a LOT) less than I spent. BUT: the gun is set up the way I want it with sights and all, and it shoots way better than I will be able to do again (old age, damaged eyes). The workmanship is excellent, and the whole Bowen crew are a class act. Decide what you want, and the time line you are willing to accept, and plan to spent a BUNCH on the work (well over $1K, probably $1400-ish, in addition to the cost of the revolver).
What I did was impractical to the point of unwise, and expensive to the point of stupid. I did it, and can't complain. As a realistic matter, I'd advocate looking for a .44 special on the forum that will matches what you want, pay what it takes to get one, and sell the 38-44 to fund it. However, a lot of what we want and do isn't about practical. If it were, most of us would only have a couple of identical 9mm glocks or M&Ps, 2 identical BCM ARs, 2 identical shotguns, and several thousand rounds of ammo for each. I tend more to that side, but I do get jealous when I see a certain moderator's pictures of his M27s.
I also liked the photos shown above in this string - not my thing at all, in most ways, but all nice.
What I did was impractical to the point of unwise, and expensive to the point of stupid. I did it, and can't complain. As a realistic matter, I'd advocate looking for a .44 special on the forum that will matches what you want, pay what it takes to get one, and sell the 38-44 to fund it. However, a lot of what we want and do isn't about practical. If it were, most of us would only have a couple of identical 9mm glocks or M&Ps, 2 identical BCM ARs, 2 identical shotguns, and several thousand rounds of ammo for each. I tend more to that side, but I do get jealous when I see a certain moderator's pictures of his M27s.
I also liked the photos shown above in this string - not my thing at all, in most ways, but all nice.BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Well, I wanted a really, really nice, fixed sight, 4 inch blue .45 Colt. I wanted it to look a bit old, no modern sight colored inserts or such. I wanted a shrouded ejector rod. S&W hadn't made many such sixguns.
As I bought candidate guns and sent them to Hamilton Bowen, he kindly examined each and told me what they lacked. I persevered and finally have, due to his chraftsmanship, EXACTLY what I wanted. Most money I ever spend on a handgun, as soon as I can afford nice ivory stocks, it will be perfect.
If you really, really want something, and the factories have already manufactured some, find one of them. If they haven't, find the parts and have what you really really want build. You will be glad you did.
As I bought candidate guns and sent them to Hamilton Bowen, he kindly examined each and told me what they lacked. I persevered and finally have, due to his chraftsmanship, EXACTLY what I wanted. Most money I ever spend on a handgun, as soon as I can afford nice ivory stocks, it will be perfect.
If you really, really want something, and the factories have already manufactured some, find one of them. If they haven't, find the parts and have what you really really want build. You will be glad you did.
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Smith &W
Member
This Bowen conversion was done in 2005. It took about two months and cost $1400..Originally a 5" pre-27 coverted to .44 special. It is the most accurate gun I own.
Tom:
Your Bowen .44 is an Exceptional gun !
The grips are amazing as well !
I kick myself on a regular basis for passing on it !
Jerry
Jerry,
I would like to have seen that gun go to you as well; however it did go to another Forum member who is also a good friend of mine too, and it actually stayed right here in Arizona.
As I recall having Hamilton Bowen do that gun took about a year, and the net result was well worth the wait.
Tom
As ferrilmerril stated, the best way to get one is to collect the correct parts and find a good smith to assemble it.
I've owned several conversions: a M27 to .44 Special (first a 6 1/2", later cut to 5"), a M28 to 6 1/2" .44 Special, a Ruger OM Blackhawk .357 to 4 5/8" .44 Special, and a Ruger OM Blackhawk .357 to 5 1/2" .44 Special. The short Ruger was done with a Super Blackhawk barrel and the longer on with a Colt New Frontier barrel.
The M27 was done in 1976 by Walker Arms of Selma, Alabama and the other three by Alan Harton in 2005-2007.
If you have the funds, have one built for YOU. Otherwise, I would look for an original or a conversion that has already been built.
I've owned several conversions: a M27 to .44 Special (first a 6 1/2", later cut to 5"), a M28 to 6 1/2" .44 Special, a Ruger OM Blackhawk .357 to 4 5/8" .44 Special, and a Ruger OM Blackhawk .357 to 5 1/2" .44 Special. The short Ruger was done with a Super Blackhawk barrel and the longer on with a Colt New Frontier barrel.
The M27 was done in 1976 by Walker Arms of Selma, Alabama and the other three by Alan Harton in 2005-2007.
If you have the funds, have one built for YOU. Otherwise, I would look for an original or a conversion that has already been built.
Some of us just like the idea of custom builds and & classic conversions and all that goes along with them.
Others fret over resale value before they even buy the gun 'they'll never, ever sell'.
Do what you want, someday you may not be able to.
Others fret over resale value before they even buy the gun 'they'll never, ever sell'.
Do what you want, someday you may not be able to.
keith44spl
Member
.
.
Right thar it is Boys!
As that country crooner sang, "I ain't here for a long time...I'm here for a good time!"
Monies for spendin', wemen are fur luvin', horses are fur runnin' & pistols are for shootin!
Forty-Fours are for ridin the range
[URL="http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/keith44spl/b11ee248-73d8-47d7-b82f-d278ab33ad2d_zpsca36056a.jpg"][URL="http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/keith44spl/b11ee248-73d8-47d7-b82f-d278ab33ad2d_zpsca36056a.jpg"][URL="http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/keith44spl/b11ee248-73d8-47d7-b82f-d278ab33ad2d_zpsca36056a.jpg"][URL="http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/keith44spl/b11ee248-73d8-47d7-b82f-d278ab33ad2d_zpsca36056a.jpg"]
[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]
Get yur Cowboy on!
After I saw she was gonna be a shooter.....I had the ol gal doll'd up a might,
[URL="http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/keith44spl/IMG_0372_zps100e26e0.jpg"][URL="http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/keith44spl/IMG_0372_zps100e26e0.jpg"]
[/URL][/URL]
In closing, it's all just tool steel and wood or ivory....
Those 44 frame revolver jest cry out to be a big bore.
One man's 38 could be another's 44
.
.
Right thar it is Boys!
As that country crooner sang, "I ain't here for a long time...I'm here for a good time!"
Monies for spendin', wemen are fur luvin', horses are fur runnin' & pistols are for shootin!
Forty-Fours are for ridin the range
[URL="http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/keith44spl/b11ee248-73d8-47d7-b82f-d278ab33ad2d_zpsca36056a.jpg"][URL="http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/keith44spl/b11ee248-73d8-47d7-b82f-d278ab33ad2d_zpsca36056a.jpg"][URL="http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/keith44spl/b11ee248-73d8-47d7-b82f-d278ab33ad2d_zpsca36056a.jpg"][URL="http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/keith44spl/b11ee248-73d8-47d7-b82f-d278ab33ad2d_zpsca36056a.jpg"]
[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]Get yur Cowboy on!
After I saw she was gonna be a shooter.....I had the ol gal doll'd up a might,
[URL="http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/keith44spl/IMG_0372_zps100e26e0.jpg"][URL="http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/keith44spl/IMG_0372_zps100e26e0.jpg"]
[/URL][/URL]In closing, it's all just tool steel and wood or ivory....
Those 44 frame revolver jest cry out to be a big bore.
One man's 38 could be another's 44
.
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