38-44 reloads with or without magnum primers ??

[robbt]

hi guys , I just bought a old S&W heavy duty .38 special and would like to load up a bunch of Elmer Keith style load with starting 10 grs of 2400 [ a little shy using 13.5 gr or more ] would I need to use a magnum primer with this load ??
opps I plan I using the Keith 173 gr SWC 358429 .

please post

 

[arjay]

I've never needed magnum primers with 2400,but it might be worth comparing them.

 

[SAFireman]

All of the loads that I have made up with with regular (non mag) primers.

You can get plenty of zip without them....but it might be a neat experiment. I currently use SR4756 (supposedly discontinued) and when my supply runs out, I will be changing powders, but not without a fight however

 

[glenwolde]

I haven't felt the need for Magnum primers with 2400 either. I'm kind of thinking that Magnum primers did not even exist when Mr. Keith was doing his work with the .38/44, as that was the dawn of the Magnum era.

Does anybody know when Magnum primers actually first became available?

 

[robbt]

hi guys , I do not know , and is why I am asking, I remember reading in Mr. Keiths first book he was reloading fired Remington high velocity cartridges and these came with large primers ??

pistol arrives tomorrow, I have about 50+ old cases with large primers , may load a few up

 

[Collo Rosso]

I've loaded a bunch of 2400 without magnum primers and never felt I needed to. I was given some SP magnums and as an experiment loaded some 357mags identical except for primers. I don't have a chrono, but could tell no difference.

 

[alwslate]

I have done comparison tests with standard and magnum small
primers in 357 brass with moderate to heavy charges of 2400. Yes the
loads with std. primers will go bang but velocity and consistancy is
greatly improved with magnum primers according to my chronograph.
My tests were done with 158 gr cast bullets.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Some years back Alliant started stating in the Speer (#13) manual that their testing deteremined Magnum primers were not needed when using 2400 & "standard primers significantly improved performance". I've always used Standard primers with any 2400 loaded cartridge.

.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Without.

Basically I have concluded that I don't need small pistol magnum primers at all anymore. My last hold out with the 357 magnum and it appears from testing that with 2400 you don't need them down here in Texas. Too warm for issues.

So once they are burned up, no more small mags for me.

 

[CScott]

Years ago I was concerned about some un-burned granules of 2400 in .357 and .44 loads so I tried magnum primers. It seemed to reduce the little yellow granules somewhat but otherwise I could detect no difference. I have used standard primers in my revolver loads ever since.
Scott

 

[Nevada Ed]

I may be wrong but I thought that Elmer ended up using rifle primers for his "Hot" N frame loads back in the day ?

Lead.................
the only way to fly.

 

[Alk8944]

Some years back Alliant started stating in their Speer (#13) manual

Excuse me, but Speer and Alliant are two completely separate entities! Speer may have made this statement in #13, no question, but it is not Alliants book! Alliant continued to recommend the Federal 200 SPM for all powders in .357 Magnum for several years after the Speer #13 was published. Alliant has always had its' own data manual!

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Excuse me, but Speer and Alliant are two completely separate entities! Speer may have made this statement in #13, no question, but it is not Alliants book! Alliant continued to recommend the Federal 200 SPM for all powders in .357 Magnum for several years after the Speer #13 was published. Alliant has always had its' own data manual!

.

It is true that when Speer #13 came out (in 1998) ATK did not own Speer yet, though they had bought Hercules back in 1996 & renamed it Alliant. ATK bought the entire Blount's Sporting Eq. Group (CCI, Speer, Federal, Outers, & RCBS) in Dec-2001, according to Chapter #1 in Speer #14 (2007). So technically, I guess, it's ATK's book.

While Alliant has alway had it's own reloading manual (never said they didn't), for it's powder, if you compare Alliant's current data (using Speer components) to the exact same cartridge data in Speer's (using Alliant powders), they are the same weight grains/muzzle velocity figures. Physically different manuals but the same handgun data, from what I've seen. (It's been the same since at least 2012, maybe before?)

On page 526 of Speer #13 it states, "We developed new data with Alliant TechSystems (formerly Hercules) 2400 propellant. Changing from magnum to standard primers significantly improved it's performance compared to data in Speer Manual #12. Do not use magnum primers with 2400 & Viht. N110 loads shown here or high pressures will result."

I do agree that subsequent year (2000-2004?) Alliant manuals continued to list Federal 200 primers for the 357 Mag.

Apparently they continued the same old data format & keep carrying over the old data until Alliant changed the format, & data, when they started mirroring that in the Speer manual.

.