38-44

salvadore

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I asked this on another forum and didn't get a satisfactory answer. Does anyone know what factory pressures the .38-44s were loaded to. I can't find it on the net, but Skeeter's and Elmer's loads are called 38-44 loads on some sites. Anyone know?
 
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American Rifleman, October 1934, says the 38-44 loads develop 20,000 psi. So the 38-44 was about the same as modern 38 Special +P.
 
American Rifleman, October 1934, says the 38-44 loads develop 20,000 psi. So the 38-44 was about the same as modern 38 Special +P.

In 1934 pressures were measured by Copper or Lead crusher equipment and was interpreted as PSI from a tarage table for that batch of crusher cylinders. Many years later, when Piezo Electric guaging methods, and even later, Strain Guage measuring equipment, were developed it was finally possible to directly measure PSIG (Guage). It was found that crusher pressures and direct PSI did not relate directly to each other and the early method came to be referred to as CUP (Copper Units of Pressure) or LUP (Lead Units of Pressure. The difference is not linear and cannot be directly interpreted between the two methods.

What was cited in 1934 as 20,000 PSI would now be called 20,000 CUP. his actually would correspond closer to somewhere between 25,000 and 32,000 PSIG, very close to current .357 Magnum pressures. Hardly equivalent to .38 +P!

This is, literally, a case of "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
 
Hatcher's book lists the .38/44 at 1100 fps with a 158 gr. bullet. Somewhere in that book, although I can't find it now, I believe it lists the pressure as 25,000 psi.
 
Well I hope the hoopla associated with the 38/44 loads was because the pressures were above 30,000cup. I shoot skeeter's load, modified by .5 gr and the keith load with a healthy dose of 2400 and run thru my M-28 exclusively, and my mid 50s OP occasionally. Weren't original .357 loads over 40,000 cup?
 
In 1934 pressures were measured by Copper or Lead crusher equipment and was interpreted as PSI from a tarage table for that batch of crusher cylinders. Many years later, when Piezo Electric guaging methods, and even later, Strain Guage measuring equipment, were developed it was finally possible to directly measure PSIG (Guage). It was found that crusher pressures and direct PSI did not relate directly to each other and the early method came to be referred to as CUP (Copper Units of Pressure) or LUP (Lead Units of Pressure. The difference is not linear and cannot be directly interpreted between the two methods.

What was cited in 1934 as 20,000 PSI would now be called 20,000 CUP. his actually would correspond closer to somewhere between 25,000 and 32,000 PSIG, very close to current .357 Magnum pressures. Hardly equivalent to .38 +P!

This is, literally, a case of "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

A very informative post. But was your last insulting sentence really necessary? :rolleyes:
 
Obviously you have never heard the expression before. You made an un-informed comment about something you apparently have limited knowledge of which could conceivably result in injury to a shooter or damage to his firearm. It wasn't intended as an insult but rather to point out the very good example of the cautionary warning of an extremely old adage. If you can, point out in what way it was not an accurate observation.
 
Obviously you have never heard the expression before. You made an un-informed comment about something you apparently have limited knowledge of which could conceivably result in injury to a shooter or damage to his firearm. It wasn't intended as an insult but rather to point out the very good example of the cautionary warning of an extremely old adage. If you can, point out in what way it was not an accurate observation.

I have heard the expression before. It was a trite and unnecessary embellishment to your information that was rude and insulting.

My comment was only "un-informed" in the sense that I was quoting from an American Rifleman article from the Dec 80 issue which was quoting from the Oct 34 issue. The author of that article did not feel the need to qualify that the figure of 20,000 psi was somehow inaccurate. In fact, the article states that a Sept 33 article that listed a 38 Special "high velocity" load for 158 gr bullets of 5.5 grs of Unique "agrees well with recent +P loading data for similar bullets."
 
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