.38 DA, 5th Model, Top Break

[Dustman47]

I need some knowledgeable information on a mystery S&W top break. Please don't reply with speculation as I can do that without help, but if you truly have knowledge to share then it is welcome.


The subject gun is a .38 DA, 5th Model, top break, made 1909 - 1919. Everything about it is consistent with the model but it has funky serial numbering. The frame is numbered on the butt with only "0" in the center of the field. Nothing has been removed around it. The cylinder has a six digit SN. I have not been in it to see if there are any other numbers. The barrel is not numbered.



My uneducated speculation is that it is not a gun cobbled together with parts from other guns, because the frame wouldn't be numbered with just a "0". Chances are it would never have escaped the factory without a proper SN. It was not uncommon for parts to be sneaked out of the factory and assembled into guns but then, would the frame have only a "0"? It could have been the very end of production and available part were put together at the factory to get them out the door.


If you have knowledge of such things, then I'd appreciate your input.

 

[Masterpiece]

The subject gun is a .38 DA, 5th Model, top break, made 1909 - 1919. Everything about it is consistent with the model but it has funky serial numbering. The frame is numbered on the butt with only "0" in the center of the field. Nothing has been removed around it. The cylinder has a six digit SN. I have not been in it to see if there are any other numbers. The barrel is not numbered.

Dustman47,

The Revolver you're inquiring about is known as a Zero (0) or Club Gun as most like to call them!! Many of these were assembled from parts on hand for Giveaways or Special Occasions...Sometimes with Ser. No. Mis-Matched Parts...Sometimes Not!!

That's a quick overlook at the Revolver you're looking at & I'm sure Our (Resident Club Gun Expert)...Don Mundell (Club Gun Fan) will be along shortly to give you more detailed info into them!! Sounds like you might have stumbled onto something of interest...Hope things pan out!!

 

[Dustman47]

Thanks, that's a good start on information and identity.

 

[Masterpiece]

Thanks, that's a good start on information and identity.

Dustman47,

I just remembered there was a Recent Thread asking pretty much the same info you're looking for...I'd have remembered it sooner, but My "Old Guy" Gene must have kicked in affecting my memory...Ha!!-Ha!!

Anyway...Here it is.....38 Single Action Third Model Target Club Gun, serial number “0”...Lots of good info...Enjoy!!

 

[Boulder350]

Some pictures would be nice. Often the old top break guns are made from left over inventory and/or are found with unique features not often found on that model. Does is have target sights or target stock?

For a regular production gun there is a serial number on the barrel on the flats where the top latch rotates, between the ears as they call it. On a regular production gun there is a number on the bottom of the latch. Zeroed numbered guns may or may not have serial numbers in these locations. A different serial number on the cylinder like yours has is not out of the ordinary on a zeroed numbered gun.

 

[Dustman47]

No, there are no special sights or grips. Also, there are no SNs in the indicated places. I discern no special features. Everything appears standard to the 5th model.

 

[Dustman47]

It does have a 6" barrel which is a special feature to the typical Model 5. It is also nickel plated, which isn't uncommon to the series. There are only a very few, small bad places in the plating. It locks up solid and indexes perfectly. I may add some pictures when I get them taken.

 

[Boulder350]

I would add the words "club gun" to the description of the thread. That should help get more attention to this thread once everyone returns from the Symposium.

A 6" barrel is not very common. Is the front sight cast with the barrel or is it a separate piece with a pin holding it in?

 

[Club Gun Fan]

You have a Zero Numbered gun. There were 50 or more made. They were in no certain model. It is an interesting revolver. Pictures please!

 

[Dustman47]

All the 5th model front sights were machined integral to the barrel and mine is that way.

 

[Dustman47]

Pictures Finally

Attached are pictures. My photography is not good, or my camera, but these might be interesting to the forum. The gun is not for sale. It was recently given to me by a good friend and I intend to keep it.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

That is really nice.

 

[rct269]

All the 5th model front sights were machined integral to the barrel and mine is that way.

Actually, and perhaps oddly enough, the 38 D.A. 5th was available with target sights-----including up front. I had one from the Gary Garbrecht collection.

Ralph Tremaine

As an aside, I have a list of most all the guns available with target sights---from the very beginning (NM #3) up to the K-22 2nd--- with the first so-called Micrometer adjustable. I say "most all" because the list was complied by Bob Neal and his legion of helpers in researching his article (The Evolution of Smith & Wesson Target Sights---a copy of which is available on this forum)---and that research was done by observation, which is to say if they didn't see a gun with target sights, then neither the gun nor the particular sights are included in the article. (The research was done by observation simply because the factory kept virtually no records on sights-----deeming them to be "minor changes" (per Jinks).) The only known omissions are some obscure fronts---not counting the "Large Screw Spring-Up" rear sight, which I stumbled upon some 20 odd years ago.

If that sounds like the research was skimpy, it wasn't. I have Neal's complete file on the research, and it is prodigious!

 

[MHF]

I’ve seen Neal’s article referenced here several times but a search only brings up threads not the article. Probably my clumsy “searcheness”
Can someone post a link to the article?

 

[Club Gun Fan]

After examing this revolver, I can up with the following. Let me know what you think. It has a 6” barrel, nickel finish, fixed rear sights with a pinned round blade front sight and black hard rubber round butt checked stocks. The 6” barrel, with serial number 234333 was from a .38 Double Action Third Model. The cylinder, with serial number 203943, is also off of a .38 Double Action Third Model. A check of the two serial numbers show both the barrel and cylinder shipped to Hibbard, Spencer, Bartlett & Company, Chicago, Illinois. The cylinder with serial number 203943 shipped on March 30, 1888, while the barrel went out on November 25, 1889. The date 4.11 is found under the left stock on the frame, indicating some type of work at the Service Department. This appears to be a .38 Double Action Third Model.