38 Double Action, 4th Model, Disassembly?

[Retired W4]

I just picked up this nickel 38 Double Action, SN: 512768. It has the usual flaking with rough bore (chambers are fine), but mechanically it seems to be very good. Timing and lock-up are surprisingly tight and I plan on shooting it.

I'm pretty good with HE's, but it's been a long time since I've had one of these apart. My question is; does it make sense to take the side plate off for a more thorough cleaning, and if I do, is there anything I need to be careful of?

Also, the right grip panel has some kind of white stuff in the checkering that a tooth brush with oil or bore solvent won't get at. I think it might be paint, but the hard rubber is in such good condition I don't want to be too aggressive. I might just leave it, as it's not that bad.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mmaher94087]

My opinion: leave the side plate on. Take the stocks (grips) off. Get some Gun Scrubber, brake cleaner or other aerosol cleaner with the little red tube and flood the revolver guts until the fluid runs clean. Allow the mechanism to dry or help the drying with a hair drier and then flood the guts with oil like Rem-oil.

Stuff on the stocks? I firmly believe in using the least aggressive cleaner and work to the hottest, grip melting, solvent made. Pull the stocks and try soap and water. Next try TSP (Tri-Sodium Phosphate). This is the nasty stuff that was in soap 50 years ago that got ones clothes clean until the EPA banned it (available in the Paint section). Soak the grips in the solution overnight and scrub the checkering with an old toothbrush. Still no love? Move up to Kerosene, Paint Thinner, Lacquer thinner, Acetone and, finally, MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone). Use this stuff outdoor and NO spark or flame.

 

[chief38]

Any gun I acquire used gets completely disassembled, inspected, cleaned and lightly lubricated. That is done because I simply have no idea what is going on inside, how the gun was cared for and what condition it is in. I do this before I even shoot it.

You state you are "pretty good with HE's" and so it should not be a problem. If you are rusty and have forgotten the little nuances get some assistance to refresh your memory. If you still feel uncomfortable then I'd seek out someone who knows precisely what and how to do it.

I always like to know exactly what's under the hood and I have discovered minor rust, grossly over lubrication or wrong lubrication, monkeyed with parts, etc. that I have had to correct. Even though a gun may appear completely stock and generally fine, one never knows unless they look.

This is just my opinion and my procedure - you need to know your own skill levels. I would suggest that no one exceed their skill levels - especially with firearms!

BTW: I am no fan of just spraying in cleaner or oil and hoping the bad stuff drips out! Many times that causes more harm than good.

 

[Targets Guy]

should i eat carbs when cutting


Plenty of video's out there. Your M&P probably would have shipped in Nov/Dec 1925.

 

[Retired W4]

It's a top-break, Mike. i usually refer to my Kuhnhausen book when needed, but even though he has sketches of top breaks and tip ups in his manual it does not cover them. The only thing about the function of this thing that concerns me is the half cock does not always engage. Sometimes, but not always. Not bad for a 120 year old gun but it makes me wonder.

 

[mmaher94087]

".. the half cock does not always engage.". It sounds like side plate removal time. Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West (D. Chicoine) is a good reference.

 

[BubbaShakers]

If you are looking for detailed instructions with pictures for this revolver, it's covered in "Antique Firearms Assembly/Disassembly" by David R. Chicione. You can buy a digital copy here Antique Firearms Assembly/Disassembly (Digital PDF Download) – GunDigest Store

"Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West" by the same author is also helpful, but may be a bit harder to find (at least at a reasonable price). A copy-protected digital version can be "checked out" for free from archive.org.

 

[Targets Guy]

It's a top-break, Mike. i usually refer to my Kuhnhausen book when needed, but even though he has sketches of top breaks and tip ups in his manual it does not cover them. The only thing about the function of this thing that concerns me is the half cock does not always engage. Sometimes, but not always. Not bad for a 120 year old gun but it makes me wonder.

Oops. I've taken a side plate off of my K-38 using a video on "how to" and it worked out okay but I was pretty nervous. I am amazed by how well machined those plates are to the frame.

 

[Retired W4]

It turns out that the sear/trigger/cylinder stop interface is the most difficult to reinstall. Opposing spring tension precludes easy pin alignment. Trying to get into the heads of late 1800's Smith & Wesson engineers is a challenge. Some say the mechanism is overly complex, and I would agree. S&W got it right later on with the Hand Ejector.

 

[John in AK]

If you know how to do so without damaging either, removing the grips and the side-plate should pose no issues; There's nothing in there, at this point, that will leap out at you and disappear into the night.
A good cleaning, without removing any of the internals, should rectify your intermittent 'half-cock' issue--and that's not really a half-cock, it's a 'loading detent' to draw the firing pin back into the frame to permit opening the barrel without banging into it. It's also not stout enough to use as a 'safety', either.
With the plate off, you can also lubricate the hammer pin, put a drop or two of oil on the front and rear sears, and you'll probably be good for another hundred years.
I would NOT try to remove the trigger guard; Although it comes off easily, there ARE things in there that WILL leap out, and are a devil to get back into place.
The advice above about the spoodge in the grips is first rate; Just be gentle, and start with the least aggressive 'solvent,' in an inconspicuous spot. If it is paint, then turpentine may be the ticket.

 

[John in AK]

Would it help if I told you that S&W apparently got the design from the French? Take a look at the guts of an 1873 Chamelot-Delvigne service revolver; There's the weird notched lifter/front sear, the pivoted rear sear, the leaf spring at the front of the odd trigger. Very suspicious, that.

 

[Retired W4]

I see the resemblance. BTW, I did the download and Chocione's book really gave little insight beyond the intuitive. Being the overly inquisitive type I found myself delving further into disassembly than I should have. I'm still trying to figure out the relationship of the rear sear/trigger/cylinder stop. Apparently the front of the rear sear has to fit into the slot in the trigger just right, otherwise nothing works. I should have stopped at the side plater/hammer spring/hammer. No big deal ($100). It will come to me eventually.

I do have other guns chambered in 38 S&W to burn my ammo stash in, but I do want to shoot this one.