38 M&P - Talk About a Bold Marketing Statement...

[RKmesa]

... "The World's Largest-Selling QUALITY Revolver"



There have been a lot of threads lately about the "38 Military & Police Revolver"..."Pre-Model 10", "Model 10", "1905 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th Change", etc... And I got a "new to me" long action pre-Model 10 in-the-box snubby for Christmas. So I decided to post a few photos and ask a few questions, as these are not my area of expertise.

Christmas Present 2016 - an October 1947 shipped 2" barreled "transitional" long-action M&P, SN S951985:









A few Questions (I apologize if they have been asked before...):

1) Does anyone know how many of these transitional were shipped prior to the short action becoming standard?

2) Have there been "larger selling" non-quality revolvers? If so, what are they?

3) Notice that the letter is not signed - it came with the gun. Has this happened to anyone else?

Thanks and all the best this holiday season.

 

[larryofcc]

... "The World's Largest Selling QUALITY Revolver"



There have been a lot of threads lately about the "38 Military & Police Revolver"..."Pre-Model 10", "Model 10", "1905 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th Change", etc... And I got a "new to me" long action pre-Model 10 in-the-box snubby for Christmas. So I decided to post a few photos and ask a few questions, as these are not my area of expertise.

Christmas Present 2016 - a October 1947 shipped 2" barreled "transitional" long-action M&P, SN S951985:









A few Questions (I apologize if they have been asked before...):

1) Does anyone know how many of these transitional were shipped prior to the short action becoming standard?

2) Have there been "larger selling" non-quality revolvers? If so, what are they?

3) Notice that the letter is not signed - it came with the gun. Has this happened to anyone else?

Thanks and all the best this holiday season.

My 6", pictured somewhere on this forum, is # S 987266, has the same action as yours and was shipped 4-48. I would be proud to own that revolver. Ha Ha, Mr. Jinks forgot to sign one. Well, he is allowed. Send it to him and I am sure he will sign it for you. Could not tell you about non quality guns. I don't buy junk. Thanks for sharing. Big Larry

 

[bruce5781]

Beautiful gun, Richard. Thanks for sharing. I recently saw another unsigned letter. I just can't remember where.

Regards,
Bruce

 

[rct269]

It would appear Himself also "forgot" his typical (and long standing) tag line: "We trust the information furnished will be helpful as well as of interest to you." (Long standing in that while I have some letters without it (which are older then dirt), it's been a looooooooooong time.) And------there's no "Sincerely" above "SMITH & WESSON".,

So why would someone bother to fake a letter----other than to accompany a faked gun? I don't have an answer to that one, and I bring it up only because fake letters have been a recent topic of discussion on another forum.

And as far as faked guns go, knowing of the owner of this one as I do, I consider it a good bet to assume he checked all the "regular stuff"----and it's "good to go".

So, if anybody knows where I can get a fake letter, I'll take two. One for my 8" .32 cailber 1st Model Single Shot which letters as a 10" .22, and one for my NM #3 Target chambered in "38 WINCHESTER CTG" (Never mind they were made ONLY in .32-44 and .38-44 S&W----says so in ALL the books!!)----'cause the factory records (and therefore the letter) do not speak to the caliber. The letter does acknowledge it's a "mystery" gun.

Ralph Tremaine----the perplexed owner of two mystery guns

 

[DWalt]

"Does anyone know how many of these transitional were shipped prior to the short action becoming standard?"

If by "Transitional" you mean a post-WWII M&P with a long action, they changed to the short action (high speed hammer) somewhere in the SN S990xxx range. The earliest postwar M&Ps started at around SN SV7698xx shipping in early 1946 (SVs were those made up on WWII leftover military frames but finished as civilian guns, the number of which not really known, but not high). The lowest S-series M&P on my list is S81390xx which shipped in 3/46. So to answer your question generally, it's safe to say that there were about 180,000 (more or less) of them.

"Have there been "larger selling" non-quality revolvers? If so, what are they? "
To answer that question, you would have to come up with a workable definition of a "non-quality" revolver. I can't. The standard definition of a "quality" item is one which is fully satisfactory to fulfill the purpose for which it is designed and intended. That takes in a lot of territory. Under any definition, the Colt is the equal of the S&W in "Quality" but I have no idea how many Colt revolvers have been made and sold.

 

[RKmesa]

If by "Transitional" you mean a post-WWII M&P with a long action...

Yes, that is what I meant.

To answer that question, you would have to come up with a workable definition of a "non-quality" revolver. I can't.

That is the question, what was the factory comparing itself to when they inserted the word "Quality" into their marketing line. I would guess that the 38 M&P (in all it's varieties) would have sold more revolvers than any other revolver - "quality" or not.

 

[JP@AK]

Nice revolver, RKMesa. Strange letter.

 

[les.b]

Richard:

Nice Christmas present... That is a real beauty, and thanks for sharing with us.

I for one don't think their marketing claim is hyperbole, or over the top, or a bold marketing statement: it was at that time, at least, the simple truth. The proof is right there in your hands.

Best Regards, Les

 

[Bob L]

A very nice and beautiful revolver and Christmas present!

 

[Absalom]

That is a nice gun, and a strange letter.

Since you are a SWCA member, I'd suggest posting the letter in the members-only subforum and see what Roy and/or Don say about it. I think a fake letter is rather unlikely.

 

[gman51]

There was around 2 million M&P series serial numbers made before the short action was the standard. There was close to another million of the C series serial numbers before the model 10 took over. April 7,1948 serial s990184 was the first short throw hammer.
With millions of the M&P revolvers made I would say it could most likely be the most made quality revolvers. You can't expect them to call their guns anything but quality made. Which IMO they were high quality. I have an S and a C serial M&P each made post war and both are still quality shooters.

 

[RKmesa]

All:

Thanks for the thoughts and the information. I have lots of factory letters, but this is the only letter I have on a post war M&P, so I was hoping that someone else who had a post-war M&P letter would confirm the wording. I do not believe the letter is fake, as it is on watermarked S&W letterhead, just that it is unsigned. Also, all of the numbers match on the gun, including the grips and box.

Here is my "Christmas Present" M&P with a few of her post war "quality" 2" barreled associates (three different varieties of the 2" M&P - round butt short action, square butt short action, and square butt long action) :

 

[Absalom]

.... I have lots of factory letters, but this is the only letter I have on a post war M&P, so I was hoping that someone else who had a post-war M&P letter would confirm the wording. I do not believe the letter is fake, as it is on watermarked S&W letterhead, just that it is unsigned....

If it's another post-war M&P letter you'd like to see, here is one from a gun that shipped a few months after yours. This one does have a signature, although it has its own curious feature: it letters the gun to a police department which didn't exist.

 

[125JHP]

2) Have there been "larger selling" non-quality revolvers? If so, what are they?

I don't know any sales figures but I'll bet S&W is referring to the large number of Spanish knock-offs that were common back then... thus the "Markas Registradas" rollmark.

 

[bracebeemer]

Richard, my 2" S prefix M&P shipped a couple months after yours. Here is the "signed" factory letter.
Bill

 

[Muley Gil]

"2) Have there been "larger selling" non-quality revolvers? If so, what are they?"

I don't know the numbers, but there are an awful lot of H&R and Iver Johnson revolvers out there. Not everybody could afford a Colt or S&W.

 

[DWalt]

Indeed there are, and even though they sold for much less than Colts and S&Ws, they fulfilled a market need and met the definition of quality for those who purchased them, even though they have no snob appeal.

 

[RKmesa]

Indeed there are, and even though they sold for much less than Colts and S&Ws, they fulfilled a market need and met the definition of quality for those who purchased them, even though they have no snob appeal.

Case in point - I have an H&R single shot shotgun from the 50's. It's worth about $100 on the market today. BUT to me it is priceless as it was my father's gun when he was a teenager and it was the 1st shotgun that I ever shot. No snob appeal at all, but it still flings the pellets down range and brings back lots of memories every time I pull it out of the safe.

 

[410bore]

Very nice Richard! I've always wanted a long action snub m&p! Just haven't stumbled onto the right one yet


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[Wiregrassguy]

Here's mine from 1948. Was a cop's BUG until I acquired it from his son a few years back. Box is not numbered to the gun.