38+P loads using 158 XTPs- ideas?

[Paul in Nevada]

...And as for the often repeated OPINION about hotter Euro .380 ammo...

The Santa Barbara JHP's I used to shoot out of my 2.75" P3AT were 95gr @ 1030fps, which is "warm" by US standards.

 

[alwslate]

Yeah I have some Spanish Santa Barbara FMJ 95 gr .380s if you want to call them European. They are the hottest .380s I have ever fired at 1,000+ FPS. They also are rather poor quality as the most inconsistent .380s I have. They are old and I doubt they are still available. They are not representative of Euro .380 ammo.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

Yeah I have some Spanish Santa Barbara FMJ 95 gr .380s if you want to call them European. They are the hottest .380s I have ever fired at 1,000+ FPS. They also are rather poor quality as the most inconsistent .380s I have. They are old and I doubt they are still available. They are not representative of Euro .380 ammo.

Spain is in Europe, bubba.

 

[alwslate]

Spain is in Europe, bubba.

Well I can see that you’re not going to be wrong Paul so have it your way and what every body knows that “Euro .380 is hotter than US .380” is obviously correct. I have chronographed a lot of .32 and .380 ammo and done a lot of penetration tests in wet newsprint, landscape timbers, 2x12s and cedar mailbox posts. I have learned a few things and all .32 and .380 FMJ ammo yaws or tumbles to some degree when passing thru soft tissue like densely packed wet newsprint. In doing so the bullets make a larger than dia hole and give deep penetration. I backed up the newsprint to catch the bullets and one Remington FMJ .380 did a full 180 turn and was stuck in the wood base first. I carry good FMJ ammo in my .32 and .380 autos not short lightweight HPs that may not feed or give deep penetration in the unlikely event that they expand. Some people seem to think a bullet that doesn’t expand is useless for SD, I don’t think so. So carry your HPs if you want, I couldn’t care less what you do. I carry FMJ in mine.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

Well I can see that you’re not going to be wrong Paul so have it your way and what every body knows that “Euro .380 is hotter than US .380” is obviously correct. I have chronographed a lot of .32 and .380 ammo and done a lot of penetration tests in wet newsprint, landscape timbers, 2x12s and cedar mailbox posts. I have learned a few things and all .32 and .380 FMJ ammo yaws or tumbles to some degree when passing thru soft tissue like densely packed wet newsprint. In doing so the bullets make a larger than dia hole and give deep penetration. I backed up the newsprint to catch the bullets and one Remington FMJ .380 did a full 180 turn and was stuck in the wood base first. I carry good FMJ ammo in my .32 and .380 autos not short lightweight HPs that may not feed or give deep penetration in the unlikely event that they expand. Some people seem to think a bullet that doesn’t expand is useless for SD, I don’t think so. So carry your HPs if you want, I couldn’t care less what you do. I carry FMJ in mine.

I think you should re-read all my posts in this thread because you are arguing with your own strawman, not with me. I am glad you finally found Spain on the map, though. Congratulations on that.

 

[alwslate]

I think you should re-read all my posts in this thread because you are arguing with your own strawman, not with me. I am glad you finally found Spain on the map, though. Congratulations on that.

I couldn’t care less what you think Paul and i have no intention of wasting my time reading your posts. There’s a lot of you on here who have to quote others and argue them down point by point in trying to prove your vast knowledge. I base my conclusions on my own experiences of the last 30 plus years of chronographing and testing on my own rural property. I do what I think is right for me and i suggest you do the same. Adios.

 

[sniper]

I am not a big .38 spl loader, but I will add that the 158 XTP is a stout bullet, and if you are looking for expansion with that bullet, velocities on the higher end are required. Larry

In an article on reloading .38 Spl. +p and 38-44 ammo in a past isssue of HANDLOADER magazine, the 158 and 125 gr. XTPs were tested to need 850 fps. as a minimum velocity to initiate expansion. Other bullets may not be as "stout", needing less velocity to expand.

 

[SuperMan]

...the problem is expanding in a continuous homogeneous media like ballistic gelatin is not the same as when a bullet enters a human body...

 

[358156hp]

Here's a good article for you to review to get you started out with defensive ammo performance. Both 38 Spl & 357 mag are listed:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

 

[rhodesengr]

I've been going through all this with 357, 9mm, and 45ACP. Probably best just to buy Federal HST ammo to have just in case and just use whatever for practice. Just too hard to get enough real world speed with XTP bullets and powder actually available to us. I did get 1500 fsp with H110 in 357 with 124gr XTP's. In 45 ACP, best I could do was about 850fps with 230gr XTP using Silhouette. Both with full size guns, not short barrel.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Most times I try to duplicate my factory carry load for practice. I try hard to duplicate the round, not only the bullet weight and velocity, I try to duplicate the feel of the recoil. It's not always easy. Sometimes you need to try different powders but it can be done.

My biggest successes are the old FBI Load and both the .38 & .357 Speer GDHP Short Barrel loads.

 

[sniper]

Since it’s almost impossible to find supplies of good SD bullets (Speer 135’s Golden Sabers, etc) and Hornady 158 gr. XTPs seem to be stocked at local gun shops, I’m working on loads in case the shortage continues.
So far, I have:
4.5gr. HP38 spm primers 38 case
1 7/8” 740fps
2 1/2” 787fps
3” 804fps
Has anyone gone down this path, and has some suggestions?
Thanks in advance.

Haven't used the XTP bullets, but a very good article in a pre-2020s Handloader magazine found that XTPs, both 125 and 158 were "stout" bullets, and needed a minimum 850 fps to expand.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Spain is in Europe, bubba.

"Well, I've never been to Spain... But I've been to Oklahoma..."

Me too! I spent a month there one weekend!

Cheers! (And an apology to Randy Newman!)

P.S. Just an attempt at humor to lighten this Lazarus-like ol' post!
Which was pretty hotly contested back then...

P.P.S. Try the Federal 130gr HST Micro JHP-WC if you want to see some expansion at +P velocities.

 

[Wireman134]

158 XTP's won't perform at .38 +P velocities. Just use a LSWCHP GT or Matt's boolit

 

[rwsmith]

I like Accurate 7

I see a load of 7.3 gr of Acc. #7 for .38 Special +P with a 158 gr. JHP.

I'm not sure about the source of this. If I were going to try it I would surely start low and work up.

Hodgdon does have Acc. #5 @ 6.2 gr.

Here's a few more unverified loads:

8.2 grain of 2400

5.0 grains of Unique

5.4 grain CFE Pistol