38 S&W Accuracy Headache!!

glowe

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OK - here goes. I spent an afternoon at the range with my recent acquisition. I now own a .38 Single Action Third Model Target, or Model of 1891. I also picked up an unserialized 10" single shot barrel. The barrel is unused and never been shot.

I have always loved combination sets, but would not be able to afford one, so I built one. At the local antique store, I found an old silverware box and put together a combination set. I have read that the original combination cases used chamois, so I lined the case with chamois and sprayed it with silicone.

Once that was done, I fit the new single shot barrel to the .38 SA frame and was ready to get out and shoot.

I had to hurry, since we already have 8" of snow and the club is not plowed, so my days at the range are numbered.

I cast .38 - 125 grain RNFP bullets (they are .361"), backed that up with 2 grains of 700X and filled the case with Puflon and shot both barrels at 50 feet. The rounds are around 800fps and very consistent. I think the Puflon helped assure uniform ignition.

After sighting in the revolver, I shot 5 shot groups and found that my 5" barrel is much more accurate than my 10" barrel. That was an unpleasant suprise. I am no great target shooter, so I used sandbag rest and I think held on target for most shots. The spread of the 5 " was basically 2 1/2" with one flyer almost every time I shot. My 10" barrel was 5" to 8" and randomly placed around the center of the target.

So my question is probably obvious - why don't I get better results with the 10"barrel. I assumed it would be a tack driver, but found out it is more of a framing mallet!!

Any and all suggestions are welcome and, just maybe, I will soon be able to drive some tacks before the snow halts my trips to the range.

Attached are pictures of my S&W, my case project, and representative target results.

Gary
 

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Slug the barrel, check the chamber length and look over the muzzle very well. That's the places to always start. If you have access to a gunshop/gunsmith with a borescope, have them take a look at it. Maybe it's going to take some "seasoning" before a good group is to be had with it.
 
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It's been years since I reloaded 38 S&W, in my Enfield No. 2 Mk I I found the Speer hollow based wadcutters gave excellent accuracy.
 
Neat project!

My .02; carry several of them like Josey Wales:D

Not an expert myself; but as Opie's dad said; check the muzzle/crown - I hear that's usually the issue.
 
Ream it to special

Howdy,
This won't go over with the collectors but I'd ream the 10" out to .38 special if I could not get it to come around.
I bet it would be impressive!
Looks like fun to me.
Thanks
Mike
 
I see indications on the web that 38 S&W guns are happier with .363 diameter cast bullets. Perhaps you could try a box of factory ammo.
 
I'd ream the 10" out to .38 special

The .38 special brass is *smaller* (skinnier) than the current .38 S&W chamber, and uses smaller diameter bullets. That might make matters worse.

cd38special.jpg

cd38smithandwesson.jpg
 
First, that's a beautiful case for a really nice DA and barrel combo.

As to the accuracy, I think I would do some further testing before deciding there is something wrong with the hardware. Ask a range partner or two to shoot the same series you did. If they produce the same wide groups from the 10" barrel, there may be something in the steel that needs adjustment. If not, you can probably fix your groups by adjusting your technique.

I have never shot a handheld 10-inch anything, but I would predict from experience with shorter barrel lengths on light frames that my accuracy with your long single-shot barrel would be terrible. Larger target stocks might help, and I mean even larger than the extension stocks you have in your case.

Good luck in your accuracy quest. That is too nice a set to settle for disappointing accuracy from it.
 
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Thanks all for the replies and suggestions. I had a great time putting together the case and shooting the gun. Not at all disappointed in the overall reliability and function of the SA, but would like to shoot it better so I can impress my friends!!:D I will definately try a box of factory ammo in a heavier bullet weight to see what happens.

Interesting are the comments on case type and I have to admit I am using trimmed down .38 Special cases. I started using them for my black powder .38 S&W SAs and DAs. My goal was to hit large gongs and make smoke. I have shot them quite a bit and they now mic at .383", so they have stretched over time to fit the chamber.

My .38 S&W dies state .358" for the bullet diameter, so I figured that .361" should work well, but will check bore dimensions.

With all you comments, I will be trying factory ammo, different loads, powders and bullets, so am confident that improvement should be obtainable. I just have never heard many comments of discussions about thie cartridge performance and accuracy.
 
Thanks Speedo2. Had fun putting it together. I must agree that I have seen very few of these little beauties for sale either.

Did a little horse trading with a very kind and knowledgeable SWCA member and added the target grips and barrel. I then needed the cleaning rod and screwdrivers. Oh and the $15 silverware box was a perfect fit. Added the S&W emblem and decided not to refinish the case and think it looks good that way.

Anyway, I am loading up some test loads with different bullets and powders to see what I can do. I want mild loads for this one, so no super speed loads.

I really like the looks of this revolver, since it is just like a miniature New Model #3 and functions great.
 

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One more vote for the HBWC (seated long), and get yourself some proper brass!

Larry
 
A couple of thoughts come to mind. Note, I am posting without any knowledge of your experience, so if you are already aware of my train of thought you may simply ignore it.

One is that if you were resting the 10 inch barrel on a sandbag that is the reason for your poor accuracy. Basically, your duplicating the effect of an improperly "bedded" barrel in a rifle. What is happening is that the way the barrel "rings" during the transit of the bullet isn't consistent. What you have to do is make sure that barrel is NOT in contact with anything when you fire the gun.

Second, it's been my experience that longer barrels on a handgun REALLY test your recoil management skills. When I first purchased my 6 1/2 inch model 610 I expected it would be a real tack driver out of the box. What I learned from experience was that it took me a full 2 years of work to shoot it to it's potential and my issues were all due to recoil management skills that weren't up to the challenge of shooting a handgun with a barrel this long when I started with it. BTW, this is also where I learned that resting a one piece handgun barrel on a sandbag will basically double the group size.
 
Thanks Scooter123. You made one point that I had not thought about. I did use sandbags, but rested the gun at it's pivot point, so the barrel was free. The point I had not thought of was that a long barrel does exagerate movement. I now see that any movement in the process of pulling the trigger is magnified by the time you get it gets to the end of the long barrel. Makes sense. The only thing I can do to prove that point is to use a clamping pistol rest. If you take away all human interaction, you can get at the ultimate accuracy of the revolver.

. . . besides I have been looking for new ways to spend my money! :D

Gary
 
Scooter123 beat me to the punch on the suggestion about not resting the barrel on the bags. I learned this many years ago. I rest the forward section of the frame and trigger guard against the bags, and "slowly" squeeze the rigger. Beautiful set.
 
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