38 Single Action, Second Model, 2nd Issue

[Heinz]

I have an opportunity to pick this one up from a friend. It appears to me to be in good condition except for the grips. It is currently wearing a later set of grips, but has the originals with the straight line logo, one of which has some chipping at the bottom. My main concern is how good the nickel looks. Could it be a replate?
Also, if I sound like I know what I am doing at any point in this post, I do not. Looking for advice and I will post a series to cover the photos

 

[Heinz]

Grips

Here are the original grips. The bore is bright and not showing any pitting since being wiped. There was some dirt in it, I do not know if it was fouling or not

 

[Heinz]

refinish?

I tried to pick out some areas that might show the nickel plating at its worst to help determine if it has been refinished. There is no N marking anywhere

 

[Jim Watson]

Looks better than the one I used to shoot SASS Pocket Pistol side matches with.

 

[glowe]

Several years ago, I did an Expert Commentary here after studying hard rubber stocks for S&W. The gun you are looking at likely shipped around 1881, so either an intertwined or block lettered set of stocks could be correct. It is most likely that the serial number scratched in the right stock is original. As far as I could determine that was the changeover time for the later style. The finish on that gun just does not look quite right. Maybe some slight over-polishing here and there under the plating, cylinder flutes do not look sharp, and the sideplate seam looks too pronounced. They nickel plating was well done, but just looks to fresh and bright to be original for a near 150 year old revolver.

The now familiar shape of the vintage S&W hard rubber stocks started with the 38 Single Action revolver in 1876. The 38 SA had three designs for the stocks. The first was S&W in block letters and a wide diamond and large area of checkering. The second style also had block letters, but the design below the top round looked like modern style stocks with the thinner diamond. The 2nd style were likely only made for a year or two around 1881 and are quite uncommon to find. Change-over to the third style intertwined S&W logo was done in the early 1880s and all 2nd Models after that date had the Young design that became standard on all revolvers.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


I have to agree that your revolver looks like it has been refinished.
The edges on the cylinder flutes don't look right.

I took some pics of my .38 CF SA. The nickel has clouded some
but I haven't tried to polish it out.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[iby]

I think it has just been polished hard

 

[jeffrefrig]

I have the same gun, maybe a little older at #56303. I cleaned it quickly just to get the haze off of it. Someone told me this style of stocks' block letters were only used in two years, 1881/0/2, I can't remember now which two. There's a picture here that shows, after I believe 10 shots, the broken hand. And so I bought it as a "wall hanger or paper weight", but it did shoot ok, and so it sits in a drawer, Waiting for the Sun. I think I paid a hundred dollars or so for it. Yours looks a lot nicer. I should put some more time in this one internally. If I can find a new hand and the spring for it I'm pretty sure this will come back to life. Peace.
Angel and her photo bomb!
Also, I found the 38S&W shorts with no problem.

 

[jeffrefrig]

Also, I believe Glowe would know, there were some different colored stocks, I think the word was Mottled Red? Some of these older guns had on them. I think they're a little pricy; supply & demand!

 

[Heinz]

Glowe, thanks for the comments on the grips and finish
Iby, definitely been polished hard.
Jeff, I have owned six of those beautiful grey dogs and miss them. Tell Angel I think she is a beauty.

 

[Modelof1891]

SA 2nd Model, Mottled Red

I think I remember seeing a set or two of the Mottled Red grips in with my extra grips. May have been offered the first two years of the SA 2nd Model.

 

[Heinz]

I included some photos comparing the cylinder flute on the 2model model with a blued 38 perfected and a 32 double action fifth model nickel
Thanks for the input

 

[glowe]

I believe the red mottled stocks came into being with the introduction of the 320 Revolving Rifle. The factory started production in 1879 making the red mottled stocks and forearms. Not sure when actual production of the 320 RR ended, but likely that production did not last long since less than 1,000 were made. Factory used the same material to make up stocks for other models into the 1880s using the standard service stock designs and the floral/turkey style stocks.

SCSW4 you can find another comment from Jim Supica/Richard Nahas stating:

Red Mottled may also be found on all frame sizes produced in the era from about 1879 to about 1882.

 

[Heinz]

Also, the hammer and trigger are dark blue. Should they be case-hardened? Thanks for the information, I am going to trade for it.
And, as a personal opinion, I think over-buffing reduces value in the same category as re-plating.

 

[Boulder350]

Nice gun Heinz. I have a soft spot for these revolvers. The factory started switching from the middle block grips in glowe's post to the Young style around 58,500 and stopped using the block style around 64,500. Between that serial number range both style of grips are found in black. Mottled grips are found in that range and they carry the Young logo.

Here are pictures of 2 sets of these guns with the Mottled grips. The first set in the box are 13 serial numbers apart with serial numbers in the 92,000 range. The second set without the box are 4 serial numbers apart and have serial numbers in the 85,000 range.

I have letters on the boxed guns and they shipped to 2 different distributors, one was sent in Jan 17 of 1884 and the other was shipped Jan 22, 1884. Both of them were probably made on the same day. I have not requested letters for the other two guns.

Notice how there are 2 different mottled patterns on the grips. One set of guns have the straight mottled pattern and the other set has the swirled mottled pattern.

 

[Heinz]

Boulder350, Wow!
Glowe and Boulder350. Thanks for the additional information and photos

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Also, the hammer and trigger are dark blue. Should they be case-hardened? Thanks for the information, I am going to trade for it.
And, as a personal opinion, I think over-buffing reduces value in the same category as re-plating.

It has been re-plated. You are correct that the hammer and
trigger should be in case hardened colors and the barrel latch
and trigger guard should be blue.

I have included a pic of the cylinder flute for comparison.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[Heinz]

Webb, thank you. I associate WLW with 700, the radio station I listened to the Cincinnati Reds on as a kid. I think I am going to pick this spur trigger up in a trade as the bore and action are very good, I can feel free to shoot it, and who knows when another will be along.