38 Special 158 gr LRN-good enough?

[WR Moore]

Back in the day, 158 LRN was in every 38- pretty much.
We all say it was bad now, but then why was it so popular?

It was so popular because it was all the factories loaded! Just like the model T was the only thing Ford built.

You don't drive a model T do you?

 

[BreakerDan]

It was so popular because it was all the factories loaded! Just like the model T was the only thing Ford built.

You don't drive a model T do you?

I am not saying LRN is best either, I am simply saying it isnt that bad. I would rather have it than some of the 110gr JHPs in a 38-I have personally seen that fail miserably. I dont carry LRN, I use either the FBI load or the 38+P+ 147 Hydras. 158 LRN is not the only 38 load the factories made, loads made in the 1950s for 38 spl included:

110 gr "Highwaypatrol" load
148 mid range and full power wadcutter
200 gr Super Police

 

[bmcgilvray]

I feel confident in using 158 grain SWC loads in the .38 Special. The old 158 grain round nose bullet wouldn't cause me much distress though if it was all that was available. Years ago I handloaded and shot a lot of the 158 grain round nose bullets as I had a ready supply of them. Loaded to standard velocities for field use, they actually seemed to be about as effective against the critters we have here in Texas as did the lead SWC version of the same weight. Lots of varmints and critters were thwacked with both styles and they always went down for the count with good hits.

Even back in the 1970s and early 1980s while I was shooting the round nose bullets regularly, the gun rags bashed them. I was a bit skeptical of such bad press. Perhaps for self defense against human assailants the round would be less effective but one must factor in marginal hits versus truly good hits and also the general effectiveness of the handgun as a defensive tool against human adversaries. There's more than the bullet shape at work in a necessary shooting.

 

[Erich]

Man, your last sentence is a great one, Bryan.

 

[RON in PA]

One thing cops do and we non-leos don't do is shoot at cars. Complaints about LRN 38s became more common during the 1920s and 1930s when autos were used in more and more crime. RNL bullets are not good against steel, but they are good penetrators against people.

 

[AZ Desertrat]

I carry a lot of the Buffalo Bore 158gr. LSWCHP....they do the job....good track record.

 

[michael thornton]

we have come a long way baby! lrn was about all you had at one time, yes they worked, still do but we alot better bullets now, even the cast ones

 

[guardjim]

I was a LEO from 69 to 78. At the start we carried LRN but soon went to .38 +P JHP. The LRN was known as the widow maker, as already mentioned, for allowing felons to continue attacking or running after being shot in many cases. An apprehended felon once told a fellow officer, after being cuffed, that he wouldn't have stopped and surrendered if the cop was carrying a .38 instead of a .357 magnum. The "magnum" in question was a Model 10 S&W with a bull barrel that looked mean at the time but was still a .38. The prisoner said "$heee-it, If I'd knowed that I could have taken a few of them". the LRN is good for target shooting but so is the wad cutter as is a pellet gun but if given a choice among todays qualty ammo I wouldn't bet my life on them.

 

[SuperMan]

For all you .38 Special fans, especially Snubbie people, how many of you have been in a gunfight with a .38 Special or have even talked 1/1 with someone who has. I have never been in a gunfight with a .38 because I have never carried one but I have spoken with many fellow officers who have and with one exception none ever carried a .38 again.

On the other hand I have spoken with dozens of officers who have been in shooting with 9mm, .44 Magnum, .41 Magnum and .357 Magnum and read other reports on .357 SIG and .40 S&W and none ever changed gun even when they could have.

And it isn't that the Shootees didn't die, because almost all of them did....the problem was that they didn't stop what they were doing when the officer wanted them to....like when the bullet hit. When you shoot someone you are not usually looking to kill them. What you want is instant behavior modification, and in that the .38 fails time after time...

Bob Makowski

 

[Erich]

Unless you put it in the right place, Bob. And I've seen plenty of cases in which misplaced rounds from those Kryptonite calibers you mention failed to do the trick. But believe whatever you want, SuperMan.

 

[NKJ nut]

And it isn't that the Shootees didn't die, because almost all of them did....the problem was that they didn't stop what they were doing when the officer wanted them to....like when the bullet hit. When you shoot someone you are not usually looking to kill them. What you want is instant behavior modification, and in that the .38 fails time after time...

Bob Makowski

It does fail. Right along with the rest. This is because the myth of the one shot stop is just that; a myth. Handgun bullets simply do not contain instant on/off felon switches. And firing a shot and waiting to see what it does to the shootee, is a good way to get killed; not so good for a survival plan. For survival it's pop 'til they drop/shoot 'em to the ground then be prepared to shoot them some more if they continue hostile action.

For this I would not choose the RNL .38 simply because there are much better choices, even in the .38 spl.

My BUG is a .38. It is loaded with 158 gr. LSWCHP +P. I hope I never need it, but who knows. if the 25 rds of 45's from my SIG P220 or the 46 rds from my Glock 19 doesn't do the job, I'll reach for the wimpy ol' .38.

 

[bmcgilvray]

"if the 25 rds of 45's from my SIG P220 or the 46 rds from my Glock 19 doesn't do the job..."

Whew Jessie, that's a scary thought!

 

[SuperMan]

Not saying and have never said that other calibers don't have "failures". What I am saying and has been proven over and over again is that the failure rate with .38s, .380s and other common MouseGuns are considerably higher than when you get into the 9mm HP and above range.

As to handgun bullets not having the ability to instantly switch-off a felon without a CNS hit, I have a whole bunch of friends who have been there and done that would would argue differently.

Bob

 

[Skip Sackett]

What has been proven over and over is that shot placement is pre-eminent, period. A 50 caliber slug in the toe is only going to make some folks mad while a 22 caliber one to the temple is enough to down almost any one.

One shot stops are uncommon. Even with the new wonder cartridge, the 40 S&W. There was a video not too long ago where a bare chested perp took one center mass and kept on coming. He walked unassisted to the ambulance!

I think a little research needs to be done on how many folks have been killed with a 38spl here in the US. I think you will find that many, many more have been stopped permanently with it over many other cartridges.

My backup, M637.

 

[AZ Desertrat]

I know this is not a REAL important factor, but the .38 DOES carry a fairly heavy slug/for caliber ratio when you think about it....you can't use a 158gr. projectile in a 9mm, or a .380, or a .32....etc. I for one would not want to be hit with a 158gr. slug from ANY barrel!

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I agree that it'll work fine if you place it right. Might overpenetrate. Not my first choice by any means, but I'd rather have that than a 100-gr zippity-doo-dah-fang-face-pre-fragmented-SEALTEAMSIX-DeathStar-Lazergraved-blastopoint.

Actually I carry those in my 337-I'm SealTeamSix reserve you know.

 

[Erich]

Two weeks a year/one weekend a month!

 

[p0838]

So what then is the 38spl FBI load?

 

[SuperMan]

So what then is the 38spl FBI load?

158 grain Lead Semi-waddcutter Hollow Point +P. 850-925 fps in most 4" guns depending on the manufacturer.

Bob

 

[p0838]

158 grain Lead Semi-waddcutter Hollow Point +P. 850-925 fps in most 4" guns depending on the manufacturer.

Bob

Great, Just what I have